KCRA 3 News "Relaxed Requirements for ATC Hiring?"

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gump

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Jun 22, 2008
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Mr. ekd---Let me try to understand what you're saying. Are you proposing that you allow a huge group of people that have no experience to submit trumped-up resumes full of fluff? Then you burden another huge group of employees (not controllers) to cull all of these fictitious resumes. Some of these applicants make it to the Academy. Someone at the Academy is burdened with questioning these NOW students and find out they do not belong there. And then paperwork must be generated to expel the employees. Yeah, that's a brilliant system.

Sir - DD214's do not lie.
 

unable

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Jan 31, 2013
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Over the Rainbow
Mr. ekd---Let me try to understand what you're saying. Are you proposing that you allow a huge group of people that have no experience to submit trumped-up resumes full of fluff? Then you burden another huge group of employees (not controllers) to cull all of these fictitious resumes. Some of these applicants make it to the Academy. Someone at the Academy is burdened with questioning these NOW students and find out they do not belong there. And then paperwork must be generated to expel the employees. Yeah, that's a brilliant system.

Sir - DD214's do not lie.

Marine combat veteran and current controller here..... some of the worst controllers I have trained are former military. All of my guys get through... but dammit... it's not like all the military guys coming in are sound controllers with lots of experience.
 

ekd

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Aug 6, 2011
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Mr. ekd---Let me try to understand what you're saying. Are you proposing that you allow a huge group of people that have no experience to submit trumped-up resumes full of fluff? Then you burden another huge group of employees (not controllers) to cull all of these fictitious resumes. Some of these applicants make it to the Academy. Someone at the Academy is burdened with questioning these NOW students and find out they do not belong there. And then paperwork must be generated to expel the employees. Yeah, that's a brilliant system.

Sir - DD214's do not lie.
Maybe, just maybe, in all your military time you forgot how actual adult hiring world works? 80-90% of resumes you get for any position are a lot of fluff and not entirely relevant. I read resumes for my company occasionally, and a lot of them are just fluff and posturing... and no, they don't get interviews. The HR in OKC can recognize it, they see this a lot, as it's their job. This is the benefit of having people look at the resumes, and a possible issue that can arise from computer-only hiring.

You can't stop anyone from submitting a fluffed/fictitious resume for any position. There is a difference between fluff and tailoring, whatsoever. And I never said they should be allowed to submit fictitious resumes - I was simply replying to your earlier statement that stated that anyone not military was going to submit a load of shit.

Did you not submit a resume at all, and just your DD214?

Also, it's not sir, tyvm.
 

GS3k

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Oct 24, 2013
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The worry isn't that any some dork working for 3+ years at McDonald's without any formal post secondary education is going to apply. That person will mostly likely be washed out during the ATSAT as only the top 300 will be chosen. The problem is that people who are only attracted to the paycheck and have no inclination/ambition to be good at being a controller will get the job over the passionate, ambitious applicants who are now and have been working hard towards this goal. It is a disappointment that focus on maintaining adequate training from the ground up is not an emphasis and specialty training such as the CTI program is no longer held in high regard.
Yeah, people like money. What's the big deal? I've been working very hard towards this goal too, it's a great job and I feel like it'll be a very rewarding career in my daily activities but if it only paid 40-50k I would probably just work as a programmer or in networking. Making a good paycheck is a huge incentive and that's why the F.A.A. advertised that as opposed to the cardiac arrest inducing stress that you will experience throughout your career. I'm sorry but "people who the F.A.A. feels have more qualifications but don't 'want' it as bad as I do" is a pretty terrible argument against the O.T.S. bids.

Sure, veterans get five point preference but if they answer their B.Q. questions like a chump that won't matter.

May the best man win.
 

GS3k

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Oct 24, 2013
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Also I wish the C.T.I. would stop pushing this whole "reduced standards" jive, if they relaxed the standards that much and you still can't get in that's even more embarrassing than losing out to a bunch of O.T.S. guys with Masters degrees or veterans with their C.T.O.s in hand. Have some self-respect people.

"F.A.A. lowers their standards, and our dumb arse students still can't get in!" - Head of C.T.I. program. News at 11.
 

h4xit

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Dec 9, 2010
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This is the benefit of having people look at the resumes, and a possible issue that can arise from computer-only hiring.
I can guarantee they will vet your resume if you are selected for hire though.
 

gump

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Jun 22, 2008
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Forgive me. I didn't know that children had their own "hiring world". We are not talking about some "company", tyvm, we are talking about Air Traffic Control. This job can kill people. There is no room for liars in ATC.

When I came in, you signed an application statement that swore you were telling the truth. And applicants signed. No resume, just a list of ATC experience and brief description. Background checks were fast and easy. That's all gone. The only proof of truth now is the DD214.

You could have counted the non-Military people at your facility on one hand. We let them work between pushes with an assist.
 

unable

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Jan 31, 2013
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Over the Rainbow
Forgive me. I didn't know that children had their own "hiring world". We are not talking about some "company", tyvm, we are talking about Air Traffic Control. This job can kill people. There is no room for liars in ATC.

When I came in, you signed an application statement that swore you were telling the truth. And applicants signed. No resume, just a list of ATC experience and brief description. Background checks were fast and easy. That's all gone. The only proof of truth now is the DD214.

You could have counted the non-Military people at your facility on one hand. We let them work between pushes with an assist.

It's a public service career. Get over it. If hired, you are going to be working next to people that never have served a day in their lives unless we are talking about coffee at starbucks.... and guess what... thats ok. Why? because you are trained by professionals that know the stakes and will not let you succeed if you don't have the stones to do this job safely. A fully certified controller is vetted by actully doing the job through the OJTI process. Who gives a shit where they came from.

Get off your high horse. Finally, if you were not putting rounds down range... you were a pog. So you sat in an air conditioned tower while i was out doing mans work. Yep... you are a real American Hero.
 
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AK02

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Apr 8, 2012
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This is the funniest and most pathetic "news story" I have ever seen...
 

ZOAinstructor

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Dec 4, 2011
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The interesting part is that listening to that news spot, they make it sound like that if you apply you will have a job. They also make it sound like CTI students have experience. CTI school is not experience, period. With the different levels of CTI labs out there even the training there can vary widely, yet they are treated the same. Over many years with the agency, I really have not seen a difference between CTI and OTS hires. All students still have to pass the academy, then pass OJT at their facility. This job is more about aptitude than it is about college classes.
 

bernelong

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Jul 16, 2011
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New Windsor, MD
This is not a hard concept... When you're waiting in line and people cut in front of you, it pisses you off. This is how some people feel whether it's justified or not.
 
also i wish the c.t.i. Would stop pushing this whole "reduced standards" jive, if they relaxed the standards that much and you still can't get in that's even more embarrassing than losing out to a bunch of o.t.s. Guys with masters degrees or veterans with their c.t.o.s in hand. Have some self-respect people.

"f.a.a. Lowers their standards, and our dumb arse students still can't get in!" - head of c.t.i. Program. News at 11.
amen sir!!!!
 

gump

Newcomer
Jun 22, 2008
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There it is. I've been counting down for an ad hominem reply. Thank you Mr. Unable.

In the FAA, Trainers are called Trainers, not Teachers. There are Controllers out there with experience. Why would you hire someone and have to teach them how clear a guy for an approach, when there is a pool of experienced controllers to draw from that know all that already? It makes no sense. It also makes no sense to spend all that Trainer's time and all that money to find out is a guy has "stones".

Note: The USAF has no Grunts, and therefore, no POG's.
 

shaba169

Trusted Member
Mar 19, 2010
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This is not a hard concept... When you're waiting in line and people cut in front of you, it pisses you off. This is how some people feel whether it's justified or not.
But they weren't in line....they were in their car on their way to the line.....
 

angelorozco101

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Oct 27, 2011
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The only thing that mildly bothered me was the fact that my previous ATSAT score got dumped. It would be nice getting selected for this bid and getting to keep my old score. (I know it's not happening) I wouldn't mind taking AT basics , after all, that's pretty much what CTI would prepare you for. And yet, many CTI graduates couldn't pass the AT basics test @ the academy.
 
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