LUAW Traffic Calls

nhstadt

Epic Member
Mar 24, 2011
2,980
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south "Murica
Hey an Actual ATC discussion not related to hiring!

So had a little discussion in the cab the other day. Say I got a dude on like a 8 mile final and plan on banging out a few departures before he arrives using LUAW. Go ahead and do the by the book "Lear12345 continue for runway 15 traffic holding in position prior to your arrival". The arrival ahead of the Lear crosses the threshold, tell the first AC at the end to line up and wait, give him the traffic (lear jet), 8 mile final.

The first arrival vacates the runway, I roll the AC in position. once the first departure is on the go, I tell the second AC to line up and wait, Traffic, lear jet 5 and 1/2 mile final.

My question is do I need to go back and Reissue the traffic holding in position to Lear12345, or is my original traffic in position call covering my bases for the second departure as well? I'm of the opinion I'm still good, I informed the pilot of traffic on the runway prior to his arrival, doesn't matter whether its 1 or 15 planes so long as they are gone when he gets there.... there seems to be some difference in opinion on the interpretation of the rule though.
 

scbbrady17

Rookie
Oct 18, 2010
47
2
8
BFL
My mindset is you should, because that Lear can probably see the first aircraft climbing out and could misconstrue that as the previously called traffic. Just personal preference but I can see the ambiguity.
 

MJ0730

Trusted Member
Mar 8, 2010
478
8
18
pointsixtyfive.com
I do a hybrid of your two options. I give it once, but ill say how many are departing in front of the lander.

edit: philly posted at the same time as me, so what he said :)
 

Stinger

Epic Member
May 24, 2009
1,563
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Back when I actually could use LUAW, I just informed the arrival once about traffic holding in position. Probably more correct to use Philly and MJs way, probably even more correct to reissue the new traffic in position to the arrival....but who's got time for that...

If I had traffic in position on multiple runways, then I only told the arrival once per runway. Otherwise using 2-3 runways requires around 9 traffic calls.
 

nhstadt

Epic Member
Mar 24, 2011
2,980
57
48
south "Murica
I was always told, if you give a traffic call for one, give it to the other as well

That was the argument in essence, And I agree with SCbrady, tomato tomato. technique wise, at worst the multiple a/c in position call is the most I think I should have to give, but as with a lot of things, the book is super ambiguous.
 

NovemberEcho

Epic Member
Dec 8, 2010
4,388
68
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Long Island
I use "Rwy 10 continue, multiple traffic holding in position prior to your arrival." F#ck your semantics, I don't have time for asanine traffic calls.
I thought you guys at SJU don't need to worry about traffic calls because anytime you have more than 3 planes you stop departures due to volume?
 

AC1277

Junior Member
Mar 2, 2013
127
1
18
Paradise District
I always do one blanket call. The way I see it, "traffic holding in position" means until I clear you to land. If I'm busy enough to need to put five or six guys in LUAW before you land, I'm too busy to make multiple transmissions. I honestly think it would just irritate the pilots.
 

siah1214

Rookie
Jan 5, 2011
59
0
6
When I'm flying an approach, I can't see aircraft taking off 8 miles out even in perfect weather.

I expect that when I call up 8-10 miles out after being handed off from approach, you'll tell me to continue my approach, maybe report crossing the FAF or 2 mile base/final with a landing clearance after that report. Probably too busy to care about how many aircraft are taking off in the interim, only care about whether or not the runway is clear when I'm on final.
 

bob44zw

Junior Member
Apr 5, 2011
108
1
18
You guys having pretty good luck with LUAW? Out here, pilots are still interpreting it like they were at Starbucks, and our controllers explain often that it really means " Position and Hold". Who is in charge of changing things to confuse pilots? Is it the same person who designs TFRs?