NATCA and Obama

Will you join NATCA?

  • Yes

    Votes: 56 61.5%
  • No

    Votes: 8 8.8%
  • Not sure, leaning toward yes

    Votes: 16 17.6%
  • Not sure, leaning toward no

    Votes: 7 7.7%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 4.4%

  • Total voters
    91

phillyman2633

Epic Member
May 13, 2010
4,203
88
48
International waters
www.drudgereport.com
Wanted to start a poll to see what kind of mindset there is around here and how many other sane (or at the very least, open-minded) people there are.

Anyone else seriously thinking about snubbing NATCA when they get in? It's kind of hard for me to look forward to joining a union that "enthusiastically" (their words) supported Obama. It is my feeling that a union should not openly support any politician, and I'll bet they found themselves biting the bullet when talk of closing facilities started.

I'm sure I'll get all kinds of shit from the hardcores out there, but I'm trying to start an open discussion here. Anyone who is a current controller and really gung-ho for NATCA, please feel free to chime in with why we should want to join the union.
 

Genot

Trusted Contributor
Feb 7, 2010
532
10
18
A Dark Dark Room
White book. If you're anti NATCA that's cool with me. It'd be great if non members declined everything NATCA had won for controllers, but nobody ever will. They'll sit there and take reclass and the red book to the bank. I'd respect the crap out of anyone anti NATCA who donated the difference in pay the get since the days of 5 facility levels.
 

DOD_ATC

Senior Member
Jun 15, 2008
210
1
18
Chicago, IL
Exactly what Genot stated. I have seen plenty of people complain about NATCA, why we do this, that and the other. But believe me, those people are the first ones to come forward with a complaint about management, the FAA, or why they have not gotten their raise yet.

NATCA is not some fancy club with a cool logo. ;) It is a union. And a union is there for one purpose only, their membership. NATCA protects YOU. When you start working you will see the absolutely ridiculous things management will try to do to you, your fellow workers and the operation. NATCA is YOUR voice to challenge those reactions.

Join NATCA. Not because NATCA supports Obama or any other politician, but because NATCA supports YOU.
 
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flyin_sooner

Trusted Contributor
Mar 23, 2010
630
3
18
I will be joining natca at least until I am checked out. After that it just depends. A friend who is a controller at ZID says it just depends for him. Some years he does other times he doesn't. I have a feeling I will probably do something similar. It's hard to say for sure without being in the FAA yet.
 

ColtsATC

Trusted Contributor
Aug 27, 2008
590
14
18
Republicans in general are against unions. Just look at all the Right to Work states.

As for NATCA, I can't see why anyone would not join. I'm not hardcore union by any means, but I was around for the end of the White book and that time sucked...a lot. They got us a pay raise, they protect us from unruly managers and power tripping FLMs, and they can save your ass if you are having a hard time in training (well..after your probation period anyway). My personal opinion, people that don't join are selfish. Reap the benefits without paying dues.

When non-members get in trouble, the first thing they do is run and join the union. I've seen it happen several times first hand. Don't be that guy.

There is so much going on behind the scenes with NATCA. People who aren't even in the FAA yet can't even begin to imagine what all they do. I'm just starting to see the tip of the iceberg as I slowly get more involved. It's unreal. It really is.
 

TimShady

Senior Analyst
Mar 12, 2009
887
5
18
34
Chicago
Like DOD_ATC said, join NATCA because it's good for your career, not because it's good for Obama, or any other politician. I consider myself a fiscal conservative so sometimes it feels weird being in a union that supports Democrats so heavily, but at the end of the day you work for the government so you have to find a balance in your political thinking. NATCA does work very hard to help ensure you have a good career, and you're getting the benefits whether you're a member or not, so I look at it as paying my share for benefits I'm provided.
 

UNDgrad06

Epic Member
Dec 8, 2010
1,309
14
38
Peachtree City, GA
Like others have said, I would join the union until you atleast get checked out. I would also stay in until you are settled into the career. If you plan on moving facilities and what not, it probably helps to stay in the union until you are settled into a nice spot in your career.

I've been in the Union the whole time, and been CPC for 4 years and getting comfortable in my job. I feel like I'm a good employee that shows up on time, does what is told and expected of them and won't get into any outside trouble (DUI, drugs, etc.) So honestly at the local level I feel like the Union doesn't do much for me, since dealing with the issues listed above are what the local does 90% of.

I have considered getting out. I mainly stay in because of what happens on the national level. They helped out with pay raises and to avoid furloughs when the rest of the government is getting hammered pretty hard. It feels pretty nice to not only avoid the furloughs but to also get the raise we just did when the rest of the government is getting bent to save a few bucks.
 

phillyman2633

Epic Member
May 13, 2010
4,203
88
48
International waters
www.drudgereport.com
It feels pretty nice to not only avoid the furloughs but to also get the raise we just did when the rest of the government is getting bent to save a few bucks.
Unless the president wants to go to Africa for $100 mil

Join NATCA. Not because NATCA supports Obama or any other politician, but because NATCA supports YOU.
Well put. I am not anti-union, in theory unions are good in that they (rightfully) protect the worker, especially in an economy where the bottom line seems to be the only thing that matters. What I am against is when unions turn into giant political action committees, when it's probably the decision of the top few who decide what candidate the union "supports" for presidency.

In the end, I probably will end up joining, at least in the beginning, because I want to, as UND said, be checked out and settled in before I decide I want to go it on my own, see how the management is at the new facility. Theoretically unions should be unnecessary because management should not look for opportunities to bend people over and stick it in, but obviously that is not always the case.

Plus, I have been around unions before, and I don't want to be that guy that everyone talks shit about behind their back because I didn't join their awesome totally cool treehouse-with-a-retractable-rope-ladder club.
 

P_to_the_R

Ruler of the Movement Area
Nov 19, 2008
519
1
18
funkytown
If the job you want so bad was non-union, you would not want it so bad. That's the bottom line. The union's hardwork for 25 years makes this job so lucrative and strong.
 

The Heatles

Loving Life
Jun 15, 2008
2,172
24
38
Miami, FL
When you guys go to the academy and receive per dium while you're there and a day of travel to get to your facility... Thank the union.

If you were to wash out at your first facility and get a second chance at another, slower facility... Thank the union.

All those days off, sick days and holidays you will get... Thank the union

When you can take sick leave without the reprocussion of 21 questions to disclose your medical privacy... Thank the union.

When you get checked out and most likely make 6-figures... Thank the union.

When you get that nice 1.6% raise that most other government employees don't get... Thank the union.

When you don't have to take a forced UN-PAID day off twice a month like most federal employees still are... Thank the union


Do I really need to keep going?? Did I mention that all of this is at the cost of 1.5% of your base pay.
 

The Heatles

Loving Life
Jun 15, 2008
2,172
24
38
Miami, FL
Everyone not in the union who just got that nice raise... Be sure to turn to a union member at work and thank them for doing all the work while you did nothing and reap the rewards.

Unfortunately, politics is the only game in town and you CAN'T not play. It's your FUTURE, how is this even a debate? ...Because you need $70 a month? Really?

That raise we just got is more than that. I'm just sayin
 

GUYONABUFFALO

Epic Member
Oct 4, 2012
1,284
24
38
Minnesota
When you guys go to the academy and receive per dium while you're there and a day of travel to get to your facility... Thank the union.

If you were to wash out at your first facility and get a second chance at another, slower facility... Thank the union.

All those days off, sick days and holidays you will get... Thank the union

When you can take sick leave without the reprocussion of 21 questions to disclose your medical privacy... Thank the union.

When you get checked out and most likely make 6-figures... Thank the union.

When you get that nice 1.6% raise that most other government employees don't get... Thank the union.

When you don't have to take a forced UN-PAID day off twice a month like most federal employees still are... Thank the union


Do I really need to keep going?? Did I mention that all of this is at the cost of 1.5% of your base pay.

When our Country can't operate effectively because of our re-dic-u-lous government spending (including goverment salaries) that go completely un-checked. Thank the union.

When my business gets taxed on anything that moves, and some things that dont, and the only thing our legislators do in session is devise creative ways to make new taxes. Thank the union.

When the Faa can not find ways to fund lower-level towers, the academy, or getting out of the 1960's becasue of the insane cost of the Air Traffic system. Thank the union...

When storms shut down entire ports, you know who goes out? When hurricanes ground the US Navy, these little guys over there, guess who goes out? When God himself rips houses off the foundations, who goes out? ... oh i guess thats the Coast Guard not the union...
 
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GUYONABUFFALO

Epic Member
Oct 4, 2012
1,284
24
38
Minnesota
Unions drive up the cost of goverment unproportionally to the private sector. It is very unfortunate if you cant seen the negative side they have. There are absolutely great benefits associated with them as well and Im might even be in one someday. Just wanted to point out that they come at a high cost to the American Tax-payer. Also wanted to point out the Coast Guard apparenty
 

The Heatles

Loving Life
Jun 15, 2008
2,172
24
38
Miami, FL
Drive up the cost? I wouldn't say that... I would say that they keep private sector employers from taking advantage of employees. Without unions 99% of us would all be mking minimum wage and have no health benefits.

You make it sound like the union says they want something and it just happens. Reality is that a 3rd party determines what is fair when an agreement cannot be reached. Unions are a good thing, you'll see that when you are not getting screwed on a daily basis.
 

GUYONABUFFALO

Epic Member
Oct 4, 2012
1,284
24
38
Minnesota
I totally can see why you would think that way, I just disagree is all.

IMO Unions served their purpose in history and continue to serve a purpose in the private sector. Employers have taken advantage of employess and now, with the unions, employees can also take advantage of employers. Seems people forget that they work for a company, NOT the other way around. If they dont like it, find another job. The emancipation proclamation was in the 1860's.

I also see it differently as far as your 99% or us would be making minimum wage comment. In any industry there are winners and losers, both in the big picture and with employees. If company A and Company B both paid the same (minumin wage) there would be absolutely no competetive edge in recruiting or retaining quality employees. Competition alone would drive wages and benifits up for the best and brightest and many people would earn even more than the unions wilderst dreams. BUT, if you got a 40 on your ATSAT, sure you would earn minimum wage, and most if us would be in the middle. Thats how the free market works. The world needs ditch-diggers too.
 

Genot

Trusted Contributor
Feb 7, 2010
532
10
18
A Dark Dark Room
I totally can see why you would think that way, I just disagree is all.

IMO Unions served their purpose in history and continue to serve a purpose in the private sector. Employers have taken advantage of employess and now, with the unions, employees can also take advantage of employers. Seems people forget that they work for a company, NOT the other way around. If they dont like it, find another job. The emancipation proclamation was in the 1860's.

In ATC you don't have much choice who you work for. My employer slashed my pay 33% during the white book and I was too old to enlist, I work RADAR so the contract option wasn't available. DOD was unlikely since I was never military. I am lucky since I am eligible for an EU nation citizenship, but I'd also aged out of the ATC hiring in Europe for any country I've ever seen as well as the huge conglomerate Eurocontrol as well as Australia. My only option was to keep plugging along with the FAA or do contract RADAR in a war zone.

I understand in MOST situations and occupations you can simply pack up and find another employer. This is not such a career. If I were an IRS tax pro I could pack up and find a place across town in the private sector. At my age in ATC my options are leave my wife to go contract in the desert for a year at a time or have my house foreclosed on. Guess what? Any entity that can keep me from leaving my family and help keep the mess that would have cost me my house at bay again is pretty good in my book.

I also see it differently as far as your 99% or us would be making minimum wage comment. In any industry there are winners and losers, both in the big picture and with employees. If company A and Company B both paid the same (minumin wage) there would be absolutely no competetive edge in recruiting or retaining quality employees. Competition alone would drive wages and benifits up for the best and brightest and many people would earn even more than the unions wilderst dreams. BUT, if you got a 40 on your ATSAT, sure you would earn minimum wage, and most if us would be in the middle. Thats how the free market works. The world needs ditch-diggers too.
My only question is who exactly is the competition? Is there a shadow FAA I'm not aware of? I've been hosed out of very close to 6 figures in pay (let alone benefits) due to the agency forcing a nontract. Leave them alone and that's what they do. As you said though, now employees take advantage of employers. How did NATCA take advantage of the FAA when the FAA unilaterally slashed pay?
 

Genot

Trusted Contributor
Feb 7, 2010
532
10
18
A Dark Dark Room
In ATC you don't have much choice who you work for. My employer slashed my pay 33% during the white book and I was too old to enlist, I work RADAR so the contract option wasn't available. DOD was unlikely since I was never military. I am lucky since I am eligible for an EU nation citizenship, but I'd also aged out of the ATC hiring in Europe for any country I've ever seen as well as the huge conglomerate Eurocontrol as well as Australia. My only option was to keep plugging along with the FAA or do contract RADAR in a war zone.

I understand in MOST situations and occupations you can simply pack up and find another employer. This is not such a career. If I were an IRS tax pro I could pack up and find a place across town in the private sector. At my age in ATC my options are leave my wife to go contract in the desert for a year at a time or have my house foreclosed on. Guess what? Any entity that can keep me from leaving my family and help keep the mess that would have cost me my house at bay again is pretty good in my book.


That was quoted below your first full paragraph. Still getting used to the new SM.
 

TomOZR

Rookie
Jun 17, 2008
45
2
8
phillyman2633; said:
Unless President and Mrs Bush want to go to Africa 7 times at at 100 million dollars a pop



Well put. I am not anti-union, in theory unions are good in that they (rightfully) protect the worker, especially in an economy where the bottom line seems to be the only thing that matters. What I am against is when unions turn into giant political action committees, when it's probably the decision of the top few who decide what candidate the union "supports" for presidency.

In the end, I probably will end up joining, at least in the beginning, because I want to, as UND said, be checked out and settled in before I decide I want to go it on my own, see how the management is at the new facility. Theoretically unions should be unnecessary because management should not look for opportunities to bend people over and stick it in, but obviously that is not always the case.

Plus, I have been around unions before, and I don't want to be that guy that everyone talks shit about behind their back because I didn't join their awesome totally cool treehouse-with-a-retractable-rope-ladder club.
There fixed it for you.