NCEPT MOU and Swaps

lowapproach

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Oct 29, 2010
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so your solution is to wait for them to come up with a reason why it shouldn't be done already, when in fact the reason it is not done is because realistically, they already just are kind of winging it with the rules as it is? How is that an adequate solution to the problem? I don't know what an unreasonable delay or denial looks like because they have not set rules as to what that entails is a silly argument, and an easy one to make when it's not you sitting there for the better part of a year not being able to plan my life in the short term because well.... you don't know when things are going to change, and when you do how fast it'll happen.

and my rep is very involved, as well as my RVP being on the ncept board and also fully aware of the situation. I'm a pro union guy but I'm not so much so that I'm blind to the fact that the union is just as much at fault for this shit MOU as the agency.
Your grievance forces a clarification of the rules. If you win and your swap is approved, then anybody in a position similar to yours gets their swap approved, either because they grieve it also or they write rules for NCEPT to consider swaps that follow mutual agreement or a decision of an arbiter. Even if you don't win, this rule change might happen so you will know when your swap must be approved by NCEPT.

Your argument would probably go something like this. A swap is reasonable because: 1. you and the other CPC have sufficient experience to succeed in the other's facility; 2. both of you are likely to check out within an amount of time that would not require downgrading the facility's workgroup category; 3. your ATMs agree that this is the case; 4. you and the other CPC reaffirm that you are sincere in wanting this swap, and 5. both of you would move within whatever time period granted by NCEPT once the swap is approved. Maybe if the FAA can show that any of that isn't true, it would be unreasonable.

And if you win and it is approved, the MOU you hate will keep a promotion from being moved in front of you at the last minute unless the COO approves it.
 

nhstadt

Epic Member
Mar 24, 2011
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And if you win and it is approved, the MOU you hate will keep a promotion from being moved in front of you at the last minute unless the COO approves it.

I agree with everything you said except for this-by the contract, in the event you are denied a promotion or transfer and you grieve it, it says you will be offered the next available like position (or something to that effect, I don't have a contract in front of me at the moment as the new slate books haven't shipped yet), it doesn't bar anyone form moving in front of me while it is resolved, which is fair, I do not want to hold up anyone else's career progression either. So while this goes up from step one to step two to PAR or whatever people from both facilities will conceivably have people coming and going while they are in category and can do so, again throwing off the sliding rule of the NCEPT PPT, and causing further delay. Just by the rules of the MOU as it currently stands, there is a very small window to make swaps work, and its dependent on them being processed quickly while both facilities have the numbers to do so. All this dilly dallying around waiting on people to make up their minds on bureaucratic nonsense is the problem, and adding more with a grievance is not going to fix it aside from making noise and causing them to fix it for down the road, meanwhile all I get is a nice "Our bad, and by the way thanks for that 1.5%".

All of your points for a swap being reasonable are the rules you are bound to in a swap and must submit at the time you request the swap anyways, so that's a moot point-I'm already bound to that and both parties have complied. I've held up my end of the bargain, now its time for them to honor the contract.

So ya, it doesn't really at the end of the day because now I'm right back where I started, just further down the road time wise, with some sort of half ass maybe guarantee that it will happen someday, which apparently is what is already promised in article 42 of the contract.

Again, I know I may sound like I think the union hasn't ever done anything for me, and in my short career in the agency I can honestly say they've done a lot of good for my dues money, including keeping my job when I washed out of my first facility, but there's no way you can convince me the MOU is anything but harmful to those in the work force who want to advance their careers, that's a fact.
 
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Bogier6

Senior Member
Jul 9, 2010
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That's pretty bad when your FacRep sits on the NCEPT panel and you still can't get it through. This doesn't bode well for my swap request.....
 

nhstadt

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Mar 24, 2011
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That's pretty bad when your FacRep sits on the NCEPT panel and you still can't get it through. This doesn't bode well for my swap request.....
RVP, but ya. I mean the communication is happening back and forth, and trust me plenty of venting happens in the direction of my Facrep, unfortunately for him haha, but I'm just not seeing any movement and its incredibly frustrating. I'm holding out until this next NCEPT meeting, but my patience is running pretty thin at this point when it comes to not grieving it.
 

Stinger

Epic Member
May 24, 2009
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RVP, but ya. I mean the communication is happening back and forth, and trust me plenty of venting happens in the direction of my Facrep, unfortunately for him haha, but I'm just not seeing any movement and its incredibly frustrating. I'm holding out until this next NCEPT meeting, but my patience is running pretty thin at this point when it comes to not grieving it.
We've got the same RVP. Never met the guy or had any interaction with him ever which is fine since I'm not in natca and never reached out to him. But I'm 100% sure he knows all about me. I had at least 20 different facilities all select me (some multiple times) and try to get me as a supervisor. Some ATMs put in for deviations and they were basically all denied. There was one deviation approved, but when I found out, I had already accepted another position outside the ATO with return rights that I didn't need a deviation for.
 

ATController1

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Mar 10, 2010
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How does NCEPT work when you are a controller bidding for a Supervisor position in the same facility? Does the controller get placed in a different category then others waiting for ERRs since it is career promotion?
 

BrewnATC

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Jan 28, 2015
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Ass deep in a folding chair
How does NCEPT work when you are a controller bidding for a Supervisor position in the same facility? Does the controller get placed in a different category then others waiting for ERRs since it is career promotion?
No. If you're not above the national average and it's a permanent supe bid, you'll need a waiver. It also seems kind of shitty to take a CPC away from your numbers and to stay in the same facility.
 

ATController1

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Mar 10, 2010
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No. If you're not above the national average and it's a permanent supe bid, you'll need a waiver. It also seems kind of shitty to take a CPC away from your numbers and to stay in the same facility.
Is it legal to refuse a promotion, and then grant one to another individual from an outside facility even though they are less qualified? It seems like if you are the best candidate, it will become an EEO issue if your management will not promote you due to staffing, and then make you train someone who is only there to backfill a vacancy. Shitty or not, but we all need to look out for our own careers. Staying or leaving, home is home and not everyone has the flexability to pick up and move...
 

SayAgain3

Trusted Member
Feb 13, 2017
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Is it legal to refuse a promotion, and then grant one to another individual from an outside facility even though they are less qualified? It seems like if you are the best candidate, it will become an EEO issue if your management will not promote you due to staffing, and then make you train someone who is only there to backfill a vacancy. Shitty or not, but we all need to look out for our own careers. Staying or leaving, home is home and not everyone has the flexability to pick up and move...
Like Brewn said above, there are measures in place to promote someone from within regardless of staffing. They can hire whoever they'd like, experience has nothing to do with it. If you were not selected it is because your ATM does not want you as a supervisor.
 

ATController1

Rookie
Mar 10, 2010
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Like Brewn said above, there are measures in place to promote someone from within regardless of staffing. They can hire whoever they'd like, experience has nothing to do with it. If you were not selected it is because your ATM does not want you as a supervisor.
Thanks, this is what I thought and was looking for. I appreciate the help.
 

Jax

Senior Analyst
Nov 17, 2010
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N90-EWR
No. If you're not above the national average and it's a permanent supe bid, you'll need a waiver. It also seems kind of shitty to take a CPC away from your numbers and to stay in the same facility.
They just pulled that crap in the most critically understaffed area at N90......