Need Help/Advice With Article 15 After Interview

BreezyBeachLife

Trusted Contributor
Jan 23, 2013
711
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ZKC
Thanks for the input so far everyone...a coworker of mine sat down with the commander and explained everything to him from my point of view cuz the first shirt explained everything to the commander without even letting me voice once what happened...but the commander once he heard my side of the side of the story, I guess he said "oh well I didn't know that" to a lot of things...so pretty much I'm in this mess because the commander was only given half the facts, which I can't believe!!! On a good note I guess though is through a good source, I've been told if I just take responsibility for the error in my rebuttal and don't make it seem like I'm blaming anyone else I was told about 95% the commander would throw out the article 15, give me a LOR, and send me on my way...we shall see, I got til Friday to submit everything
 

unable

Trusted Member
Jan 31, 2013
399
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Over the Rainbow
Thanks for the input so far everyone...a coworker of mine sat down with the commander and explained everything to him from my point of view cuz the first shirt explained everything to the commander without even letting me voice once what happened...but the commander once he heard my side of the side of the story, I guess he said "oh well I didn't know that" to a lot of things...so pretty much I'm in this mess because the commander was only given half the facts, which I can't believe!!! On a good note I guess though is through a good source, I've been told if I just take responsibility for the error in my rebuttal and don't make it seem like I'm blaming anyone else I was told about 95% the commander would throw out the article 15, give me a LOR, and send me on my way...we shall see, I got til Friday to submit everything

I wish I had a coworker explain my side of the story when PFC Chung lost his wallet in Tijuana and we were stuck at the border. Worst Monday of my entire life. Never leave a Marine behind.
 
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BreezyBeachLife

Trusted Contributor
Jan 23, 2013
711
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Alright I just went over my FAA paperwork but I guess I jumped the gun and remembered wrong. No where in the pre-TOL paperwork doesn't ever ask anything about an article 15, it does however as about court martial. So that makes me feel even better if this does go through
 

AF_ATC

Trusted Member
Nov 20, 2009
477
6
18
Breezy

As an AOF, I know about the punitive process. I'm really surprised they would issue you an Art 15 over missing a suspense unless there was a trend there mixed with other issues and repeated "counceling." Sounds like everything is getting worked out now but in the future I would do the following things in this exact order:

1. Check yourself. It is easy to play the blame game and say "I'm innocent, everyone's out ot get me." It takes an adult to be able to look at themselves for the shit they've done.

2. Talk to your supervisor and ask directly about the situation and explain your side.

3. If that's not going anywhere, go talk to ADC and/or IG which I know you stated you already did.

Just don't forget Step #1. It's what I see airmen miss all the time in these exact situations.
 

BreezyBeachLife

Trusted Contributor
Jan 23, 2013
711
6
18
ZKC
Breezy

As an AOF, I know about the punitive process. I'm really surprised they would issue you an Art 15 over missing a suspense unless there was a trend there mixed with other issues and repeated "counceling." Sounds like everything is getting worked out now but in the future I would do the following things in this exact order:

1. Check yourself. It is easy to play the blame game and say "I'm innocent, everyone's out ot get me." It takes an adult to be able to look at themselves for the shit they've done.

2. Talk to your supervisor and ask directly about the situation and explain your side.

3. If that's not going anywhere, go talk to ADC and/or IG which I know you stated you already did.

Just don't forget Step #1. It's what I see airmen miss all the time in these exact situations.
Appreciate the advice! I even talked to my supervisor today and he said about the same things you said in the first bullet and in my rebuttal just take blame and focus on what I could have done better and will do in the future...I've also heard through the grape vine that this is mainly what the commander wants to hear and if he does hear it, he'll prob just give me an LOR. I was told I would find out for sure though on his decision on Monday so we shall see but again thx!
 

AlphaKilo

Senior Member
Feb 1, 2009
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Here and there
In my experience the Air Force doesn't like it when you tell them someone else is to blame for X situation, even if it's entirely true. Admitting guilt, even if you're being dishonest and violating one of the Air Force core values, is probably a better bet.
 

rooster

Trusted Contributor
Sep 6, 2009
715
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Western Hemipshere
In my experience the Air Force doesn't like it when you tell them someone else is to blame for X situation, even if it's entirely true. Admitting guilt, even if you're being dishonest and violating one of the Air Force core values, is probably a better bet.
Officers want you to "man up" and be responsible, but remember one important rule...they play by different rules. Get everything in writing. I repeat, GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING.
 

JulietDelta

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2012
189
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Missouri
In my experience the Air Force doesn't like it when you tell them someone else is to blame for X situation, even if it's entirely true. Admitting guilt, even if you're being dishonest and violating one of the Air Force core values, is probably a better bet.
The irony in that is AF being all about the wingman concept.
 

jpapadub

Rookie
Mar 11, 2010
44
0
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Im curious how your VRA application went through so far in advance of your DOS. Guys here are usually 6 months out before they get it through. Good luck to you.
 

NovemberEcho

Epic Member
Dec 8, 2010
4,388
68
48
Long Island
I got selected and a TOL when I had still had 16 months left. Don't get out til Feb 2014. Everyone who tells you not to apply early is an idiot.
 

BreezyBeachLife

Trusted Contributor
Jan 23, 2013
711
6
18
ZKC
**Update**
After my commander read my rebuttal he dropped the false statement charge but still upheld the charge for direlection of duty and demoted me one rank. I'm currently almost at my 5 year mark with a DOS of Aug 1st 2014...I've pretty much made up my mind but wanted some more advice. I was told today that the Air Force just reenacted their DOS rollback program with a DOS of sept 20th. I think it would be my best bet to accept this rollback because I still get honorable discharge and all my benefits, like gi bill, medical for 2 years, etc...vs staying in for 14 months and be walking on egg shells where the smallest mistake could result in a less then honorable discharge and hurt my chances at the FAA. Since I already had my FAA interview for a center I would imagine I would be picked up within a year but regardless I ain't worried about trying to match the 35k year I'm making now. After all before I joined the Air Force I made about 52k a year and that job is still available for me while I wait for the FAA. i still can't believe this whole thing is happening but I can see a silver lining in it and hopefully cuz of this I will be able to join the FAA sooner then I was going to without this happening. Advice/comments welcomed again thanks[
 

unable

Trusted Member
Jan 31, 2013
399
36
28
Over the Rainbow
**Update**
After my commander read my rebuttal he dropped the false statement charge but still upheld the charge for direlection of duty and demoted me one rank. I'm currently almost at my 5 year mark with a DOS of Aug 1st 2014...I've pretty much made up my mind but wanted some more advice. I was told today that the Air Force just reenacted their DOS rollback program with a DOS of sept 20th. I think it would be my best bet to accept this rollback because I still get honorable discharge and all my benefits, like gi bill, medical for 2 years, etc...vs staying in for 14 months and be walking on egg shells where the smallest mistake could result in a less then honorable discharge and hurt my chances at the FAA. Since I already had my FAA interview for a center I would imagine I would be picked up within a year but regardless I ain't worried about trying to match the 35k year I'm making now. After all before I joined the Air Force I made about 52k a year and that job is still available for me while I wait for the FAA. i still can't believe this whole thing is happening but I can see a silver lining in it and hopefully cuz of this I will be able to join the FAA sooner then I was going to without this happening. Advice/comments welcomed again thanks[
That's the bullshit side of the military for you...
Good luck
 

Roddy_Piper

Resident Knucklehead
Jun 15, 2008
3,339
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Vegas baby
www.myspace.com
get out. first shirt is worthless, commander and CCTLR too. sheesh.

i've been out for 10 years so i may have lost touch some. crazy that the AF is being so crazy about this. oh well, rub it in their face in 2 years when you're making quadruple your pay and double theirs.

...just saying