Need Help! CFI renewal

Niagra19

"Murphy"
Sep 22, 2008
664
13
0
Phoenix
So I'm sitting here working on my CFI renewal online. 16 hours of studying fun!! Anyways I came across a paragraph I just can wrap my brain around. Someone please help me figure out wtf they are talking about. Dont use the words "clear prop"??????

"The beginning student pilot is entering a realm of new concepts and experiences, and is also encountering new terms and phrases which are often confusing. The flight instructor does, and should, use these terms and phases during instruction. These phrases introduced at the beginning will be remembered by the student. Things such as "clear prop", "monitor ATIS", etc., should be avoided with new students. The student should be exposed to words like "traffic" and "stall". (American Flyers)
 

irishcarbomb

New member
Dec 3, 2008
1,801
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Houston, TX
maybe they're talking about combining new terms and tasks together...

i know its hard to think about but some people might not know what the prop is...

if you go back to the FOI...
for the student to be able to go beyond rote knowledge, the word "prop" would have to be introduced and explained first...then explain what is meant by "clearing" the area...then apply it, and then the student can have correlation "clear prop" as having an actual meaning other than just yelling it before you start.

things like traffic and stalls are just that...actual objects that they can immediately put the word and meaning together with an understanding of what it is.

best i can come up with...
 

SnowAviation

New member
Jan 29, 2009
292
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Southern California TRACON
As a concept it makes sense, you start with simple and go to complex,
you teach singular items and then combine them with other terms and
items into more cohesive thoughts.

But seriously, Clear Prop? If a student pilot is behind the yoke,
or stick, and doesn't already understand what a prop is ,then you
haven't done your job.

And if they can't grasp what the meaning of "Clear" is, well...you are
gonna have problems for a long time, just wait till you try to get them
to steer with their feet.


Clear Prop is a bad example of introducting complex ideas too quickly,
better examples would be "Follow the VASI" or "Climbout at Vx."

Are you doing the American Flyers Lifetime renewal? I've done that one
twice and paid for their ACR service, it's pretty sweet.
 

ATCtower

New member
Oct 26, 2008
1,257
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As a concept it makes sense, you start with simple and go to complex,
you teach singular items and then combine them with other terms and
items into more cohesive thoughts.

But seriously, Clear Prop? If a student pilot is behind the yoke,
or stick, and doesn't already understand what a prop is ,then you
haven't done your job.

And if they can't grasp what the meaning of "Clear" is, well...you are
gonna have problems for a long time, just wait till you try to get them
to steer with their feet.
I completely agree! You would be amazed some of the things I have seen and heard from student pilots. One terrible example was about 3 years ago, I was on ground freq. taxiing out and heard a kid call for taxi instructions and the exchange came something like this and had to be a student on a solo:

N123FR (example, dont remember the real one): Centennial Ground, 123FR ready to taxi.

APA Ground: 123FR what is your direction of departure?

N123FR: Um, I think Im just gonna fly.

APA Ground: Great, where do you want to fly?

N123FR: Um, Um, Um (30 seconds of um's with the mic keyed), I dont know, maybe around DIA (DEN).

APA: 123FR make sure you obtain clearance into class Bravo upon departure. Expect northbound departure. Do you have the ATIS information?

123FR: Ya, I think so

APA: And I think you might take off today. Do you have the current ATIS?

123FR: Maybe, what do I have to do to get it?

APA: Turn off your engine and come see me in the tower.


I couldnt quit laughing!

Its horrible how shitty some people are and just should not be flying.
 
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Niagra19

"Murphy"
Sep 22, 2008
664
13
0
Phoenix
Are you doing the American Flyers Lifetime renewal? I've done that one
twice and paid for their ACR service, it's pretty sweet.
Yeah I'm doing the American Flyers renewal. It?s a smokin? deal if you actually use it more than once. Seems to me they are banking on pilots not keep their certs up in the long term. This is my first renewal since my CFII ride was almost two years ago. Seems to me that AF doesn?t have the same quality literature you might expect from Gleim, Jepp, or AOPA. :drinks: Here's to being poor.
 

1984warrior

New member
Jan 24, 2009
43
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Minnesota
I heard one time that a student had been yelling "clear" out the window until one flight when it was overcast and they yelled "cloudy"
probably just a bad joke from nerdy pilots...
but still, I guess it could be confusing... if you didn't explain the purpose of doing it
 

Niagra19

"Murphy"
Sep 22, 2008
664
13
0
Phoenix
I heard one time that a student had been yelling "clear" out the window until one flight when it was overcast and they yelled "cloudy"
probably just a bad joke from nerdy pilots...
but still, I guess it could be confusing... if you didn't explain the purpose of doing it
I see it as confusing at telling a child to make sure the road is clear before crossing. God help me if I ever have a student that is actually that dense.

I still don't think the term "clear prop" should be avoided with new students as this renewal course says. At least I don't think it should be any more avoided than "traffic" or "stall." All should have explanation before usage. I think they could have chosen a much better example like "stagnation point" "IDG" or "calibrated leak" that dont need to be explained to a new student and thus should not be used.

You think now that I'm 80% done I could let the second paragraph in the first chapter go, but I guess I'm still trying to grasp what the hell they meant. Glad to see everyone has guesses, but not a clear distinct answer. Makes me feel less stupid.
 

con8iv

New member
Jun 22, 2009
1
0
0
I have to admit the following actually took place on one of my flights (can't remember the actual a/c id):

Student: GP tower, Cessna 639SV, ready for takeoff, north departure.
Me: South departure.
Student: No, north departure.
Me: No, south departure, we'll be leaving the traffic pattern to the south.
Student: Tower, Cessna 639SV, ready for takeoff, south departure.
Tower: Cessna 639SV, cleared for takeoff, left turn, right turn, whatever...

It was the first time we had used 35 for takeoff and she had the mike keyed for the entire conversation...