New Air Traffic Control Hiring Rumor

GulfCharlie

Epic Member
Sep 1, 2011
2,055
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Heard this from several source on up high, take it as you will, March will be last OTS bid then they will return to previous hiring practices with some modifications.
 

Paris

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2014
160
3
18
I Can't Keep Still...
Re: New Hiring Rumour

previous hiring practices as in CTI and VRA? or the one they used before that which I think was the whole panel process??
 
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AUpct

Newcomer
Oct 17, 2011
2
0
1
Re: New Hiring Rumour

Personally, I feel they should do like the did years ago. There's a test, take it, and if you score high enough you get hired. Doesn't matter if you have a CTI or off the street. The crap they are doing now is ridiculous. And before you ask, I was hired off the street as well as my sister. We both had long careers as CPCs. I hate to think of the talent being ostracized from applying for a job as a controller. Having a CTI doesn't guarantee a new hire will be successful.
 

unable

Trusted Member
Jan 31, 2013
399
37
28
Over the Rainbow
Re: New Hiring Rumour

Personally, I feel they should do like the did years ago. There's a test, take it, and if you score high enough you get hired. Doesn't matter if you have a CTI or off the street. The crap they are doing now is ridiculous. And before you ask, I was hired off the street as well as my sister. We both had long careers as CPCs. I hate to think of the talent being ostracized from applying for a job as a controller. Having a CTI doesn't guarantee a new hire will be successful.
and the debate continues.... and i agree with you 100%
 

seanpatrick

Newcomer
Sep 11, 2011
13
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PNW
Re: New Hiring Rumour

Gotta love people thinking CTI grads are all entitled little pricks
Its just tough to imagine someone who was in tech school for years getting a job over a person who actually did the job successfully for over half a decade. Not sure its a matter of personally disliking a person or a group of people.
 

ControlledChaos

Junior Member
Dec 5, 2013
101
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Re: New Hiring Rumour

Its just tough to imagine someone who was in tech school for years getting a job over a person who actually did the job successfully for over half a decade. Not sure its a matter of personally disliking a person or a group of people.
Agreed!
 

zploch

Newcomer
Oct 13, 2014
19
0
1
Re: New Hiring Rumour

Personally, I feel they should do like the did years ago. There's a test, take it, and if you score high enough you get hired. Doesn't matter if you have a CTI or off the street. The crap they are doing now is ridiculous. And before you ask, I was hired off the street as well as my sister. We both had long careers as CPCs. I hate to think of the talent being ostracized from applying for a job as a controller. Having a CTI doesn't guarantee a new hire will be successful.
I completely agree! Some of us just cannot spend the money to attend a CTI school and would love to work in the air traffic control field. I have heard that March will be the last OTS and then they plan to go back to previous hiring practices.
 

ChainSaw23

Newcomer
Nov 19, 2014
2
1
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NO. Having a CTI degree does NOT guarentee success. In my Level 12 facility, the CTI success rate is much better then the OTS hires have ever been. On average it does not take CTI grads as long to train which saves the agency money. Lots of it. When the agency started hiring VRA's and CTI's, the washout rate in my facility dropped from over 50% to under 10%. That is huge. It costs the agency approximately, on average, over $150,000 to train a new hire to completion. I will be the first to admit that not all CTI programs are the same. Some are a disgrace, if some of the rumors I've heard are true. It seems that we get most of ours from the Community College of Beaver Co. & Embry Riddle-Daytona. In my opinion, CCBC has the best program in the nation. It is rare that a CCBC CTI does not make it.

Im not saying that the agency should not hire OTS candidates. There are some good ones out there. I'm an OTS hire. I've been in a Level 12 facility for 23 years. Most of my "well-seasoned" coworkers are OTS hires as well. If an individual wants to spend the time, energy, & money to get a degree in a particular field, wouldn't you as an employer want to hire them first knowing that the cost and time to train them would be less? You cannot walk in off the street and be hired as a doctor or a lawyer. If you cannot afford the expense and do not want to go through the student loan process, then maybe you should consider a different field of employment. That being said, the door to OTS will never be closed, regardless of what happens in the future.

As far as CTI grads thinking they are "entitled". I think it is more a product of the generation. This generation, not everybody, but I feel a majority of them feel that they should be getting what their parents got at a lot younger age AND without having to work as hard for it. That being said, Yes there are CTI grads who think they should be entitled to be hired first. Based on my previous paragraph, you can probably guess, I AGREE!!!
 
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ChainSaw23

Newcomer
Nov 19, 2014
2
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And I didn't even touch on VRA's. Aka, Military Controller's. They are every bit as successful as CTI's and should also be afforded the same opportunity for a lot of the same reasons.
 

deano

Junior Member
Mar 21, 2012
148
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CTI shouldn't be seen in such a negative light. A lot of you controllers or potential applicants who mention that people are being passed over who would make great controllers simply because they don't have CTI/VRA should think about the argument here. I do NOT believe that successful completion of a CTI program makes a better controller than someone who may have been hired off the street. I DO however, believe that it is a very small step towards earning an employment opportunity from the FAA. The fact that a much higher percentage of CTI applicants are willing to pursue employment when offered the job (TOL/FOL/ETC) simply makes the hiring more efficient for the FAA as a whole, In addition to providing applicants who have had 1.5-4 years of aviation exposure to ensure that they want to at least attempt to pursue a career in ATC.

My analogy would be that of an Officer position in the military versus an enlisted position. As a current military member, it is very clear there are many enlisted that would make FAR better officers than some of the current officers. Is there a missed opportunity for those great individuals to be officers due to the requirement of a 4 year degree? It isn't so much of a missed opportunity when you realize that IF those enlisted members pursued the 4 year degree, they could very well become great officers.

The degree in both situations isn't the magic key to being a successful Controller/Officer, however the degrees do hold some level of value to each profession. Those seeking employment can (in most situations with the exception of age issues/possible financial issues) pursue the CTI degree to allow them the opportunity for employment. Many of the CTI schools are community colleges with very affordable programs and although each school varies in the quality of their programs, I do feel that the intent is to provide a more informed applicant with a well rounded BASIC understanding of aviation and aviation related careers.

The entitled nature of some CTI students shouldn't represent the program altogether...and I truly believe that these individuals who posses such characteristics will tend to have issues throughout their careers (if they even succeed at the academy).

CTI provides an associates degree, or bachelors degree which can help an individual gain employment through other avenues as well if the ATC career doesn't work out as anticipated. Having a degree of some sort is considered an entry level requirement in many job opportunities currently, so why not pursue a 4 year degree or 2 year degree and allow yourself to check the box for CTI and check the box for a degree with other employment options?
 

Maximus

Rookie
Sep 13, 2014
27
0
1
NO. Having a CTI degree does NOT guarentee success. In my Level 12 facility, the CTI success rate is much better then the OTS hires have ever been. On average it does not take CTI grads as long to train which saves the agency money. Lots of it. When the agency started hiring VRA's and CTI's, the washout rate in my facility dropped from over 50% to under 10%. That is huge. It costs the agency approximately, on average, over $150,000 to train a new hire to completion. I will be the first to admit that not all CTI programs are the same. Some are a disgrace, if some of the rumors I've heard are true. It seems that we get most of ours from the Community College of Beaver Co. & Embry Riddle-Daytona. In my opinion, CCBC has the best program in the nation. It is rare that a CCBC CTI does not make it.

Im not saying that the agency should not hire OTS candidates. There are some good ones out there. I'm an OTS hire. I've been in a Level 12 facility for 23 years. Most of my "well-seasoned" coworkers are OTS hires as well. If an individual wants to spend the time, energy, & money to get a degree in a particular field, wouldn't you as an employer want to hire them first knowing that the cost and time to train them would be less? You cannot walk in off the street and be hired as a doctor or a lawyer. If you cannot afford the expense and do not want to go through the student loan process, then maybe you should consider a different field of employment. That being said, the door to OTS will never be closed, regardless of what happens in the future.

As far as CTI grads thinking they are "entitled". I think it is more a product of the generation. This generation, not everybody, but I feel a majority of them feel that they should be getting what their parents got at a lot younger age AND without having to work as hard for it. That being said, Yes there are CTI grads who think they should be entitled to be hired first. Based on my previous paragraph, you can probably guess, I AGREE!!!
Amen, ChainSaw! Finally some logic based on experience. Hopefully my son (CCBC CTI) won't age out before the FAA pulls its head out of its ass.
 

cosoccer

Rookie
Feb 11, 2014
47
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I always love generation arguments, they have been around forever and what is most interesting is the previous generation complains about by products that they created. These "kids" did not raise themselves.
 
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