New Contract

NovemberEcho

Epic Member
Dec 8, 2010
4,388
68
48
Long Island
^they had that in Tyndall when I was there (not me, but the DoD guys). I guess one year all but one guy got a raise and 7 years later they still talked about it all pissed off. Every other year everyone got it.
 

Jax

Senior Analyst
Nov 17, 2010
869
32
28
N90-EWR
If there was pay-for-performance, I'd be cashing in. Longevity is good and all, but it shouldn't be the main focus.
You really don't want that to return. You seem to forget that there's a human element involved. Do you really trust your supervisors to accurately and fairly "evaluate" your performance? Yeah....I don't think so. We had a so called "merit" system back in the old days, and it got abused in more ways than I can describe here.

Our system based in longevity may not be the best, but at least is somewhat fair across the board.
 

phillyman2633

Epic Member
May 13, 2010
4,205
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International waters
www.drudgereport.com
You really don't want that to return. You seem to forget that there's a human element involved. Do you really trust your supervisors to accurately and fairly "evaluate" your performance? Yeah....I don't think so. We had a so called "merit" system back in the old days, and it got abused in more ways than I can describe here.

Our system based in longevity may not be the best, but at least is somewhat fair across the board.
I'm with this. I'll be completely honest, if we were based on pay-for-performance here, there are some people that would probably be making like minimum wage, because they are f*king shit controllers. From what I understand, SJU/ZSU used to have an LOA that specifically required 5 miles on all IFR departures same routings. We still get flow from them all the time to give them 10 MIT for freaking MTN C208s during the cargo push because they can't vector around a 5 mile cloud 30 miles out. And when ZMA calls requesting 15 MIT on all ZSU to ZMA traffic, they call down to us and give us 15 MIT, even though that probably gives them closer to 25 MIT at ZMA boundary because they can't be bothered by such trivial things as vectoring.

That being said, you don't want controllers going crazy with anticipated separation, etc... and just ramping shit way the f*ck up cuz they want that sweet sweet Christmas bonus. Though I'd say we are definitely underpaid as a whole commensurate to the amount of safety and risk the job entails, if our raises keep pace with inflation I suppose I can't complain all that much.
 

DaOsprey

Trusted Member
Mar 25, 2014
490
8
18
I'm with this. I'll be completely honest, if we were based on pay-for-performance here, there are some people that would probably be making like minimum wage, because they are f*king shit controllers. From what I understand, SJU/ZSU used to have an LOA that specifically required 5 miles on all IFR departures same routings. We still get flow from them all the time to give them 10 MIT for freaking MTN C208s during the cargo push because they can't vector around a 5 mile cloud 30 miles out. And when ZMA calls requesting 15 MIT on all ZSU to ZMA traffic, they call down to us and give us 15 MIT, even though that probably gives them closer to 25 MIT at ZMA boundary because they can't be bothered by such trivial things as vectoring.

That being said, you don't want controllers going crazy with anticipated separation, etc... and just ramping shit way the f*ck up cuz they want that sweet sweet Christmas bonus. Though I'd say we are definitely underpaid as a whole commensurate to the amount of safety and risk the job entails, if our raises keep pace with inflation I suppose I can't complain all that much.

I fucked your wife on a parsnip, then sold it to a family with four small children.
 

wxdude

Senior Member
Jun 5, 2015
172
0
16
51
I'm with this. I'll be completely honest, if we were based on pay-for-performance here, there are some people that would probably be making like minimum wage, because they are f*king shit controllers. From what I understand, SJU/ZSU used to have an LOA that specifically required 5 miles on all IFR departures same routings. We still get flow from them all the time to give them 10 MIT for freaking MTN C208s during the cargo push because they can't vector around a 5 mile cloud 30 miles out. And when ZMA calls requesting 15 MIT on all ZSU to ZMA traffic, they call down to us and give us 15 MIT, even though that probably gives them closer to 25 MIT at ZMA boundary because they can't be bothered by such trivial things as vectoring.

That being said, you don't want controllers going crazy with anticipated separation, etc... and just ramping shit way the f*ck up cuz they want that sweet sweet Christmas bonus. Though I'd say we are definitely underpaid as a whole commensurate to the amount of safety and risk the job entails, if our raises keep pace with inflation I suppose I can't complain all that much.
I disagree about being underpaid, I get paid a heck of a lot of money to sit in front of a screen and not let pixels get too close to one another. Yes there are those days/never ending weeks that we do earn our money bit overall I make off like a bandit for the level of work I have to do.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
 

wxdude

Senior Member
Jun 5, 2015
172
0
16
51
Keep that shit to yourself man... the rest of us are trying to get the most money while we can before we are FORCED to retire at 56. We make a handsome salary for the responsibility to protect lives that we have and the fact that we don't get to do it forever.
We do have a small, but very important, skill set. However no where does it say that you cannot continue to work after 56, that is a privilege we have because of the nature of the work.

To say that you are forced to retire at 56 is not correct. Yes you can no longer control traffic for the FAA but nowhere is it written that a medically disqualified FAA controller can no longer work. Each individual decides that early on in their career through retirement planning...or lack thereof.

If your living outside of your means then yes it will be hard to keep that lifestyle after the FAA. However with good planning and realistic understanding of this job you can retire decades before the majority of the US workforce even thinks about it. All the while living a lifestyle you are accustomed to and enjoy.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
 

nhstadt

Epic Member
Mar 24, 2011
2,980
57
48
south "Murica
We do have a small, but very important, skill set. However no where does it say that you cannot continue to work after 56, that is a privilege we have because of the nature of the work.

To say that you are forced to retire at 56 is not correct. Yes you can no longer control traffic for the FAA but nowhere is it written that a medically disqualified FAA controller can no longer work. Each individual decides that early on in their career through retirement planning...or lack thereof.

If your living outside of your means then yes it will be hard to keep that lifestyle after the FAA. However with good planning and realistic understanding of this job you can retire decades before the majority of the US workforce even thinks about it. All the while living a lifestyle you are accustomed to and enjoy.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

This is true, however, I will say I would like that standard of living I'm used to to be as awesome as possible.
 
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DaOsprey

Trusted Member
Mar 25, 2014
490
8
18
I want to do lines off hookers on a yacht in the Mediterranean while dance to some punked out euro techno trash then hit a pub somewhere in Greece eating a shit ton of spaghetti
 

Grumpy

Newcomer
Jun 4, 2016
4
0
1
56 is Bravo Sierra. I'm pushin' 50 and can still work circles around most controllers half my age. Like a fine wine, we only get better with age...
 

RobertB

Senior Analyst
Aug 18, 2008
869
6
18
56 is Bravo Sierra. I'm pushin' 50 and can still work circles around most controllers half my age. Like a fine wine, we only get better with age...
Lol! I've seen people, who were great controllers, all of a sudden hit an age and it is like they're a new CPC. There's a reason we go at 56 and it has a lot to do with mental fatigue and mental reaction.
 

Grumpy

Newcomer
Jun 4, 2016
4
0
1
The FAA sets the standards based on averages, who's to say that some people don't fit into their perceived box? I know I can't be the only one that feels this way...I have been in Level 10 for going on 27 years now, I know most of the pilots by their first name for cryin' out loud. I enjoy the blips (people) and I don't want to give it up...
 

nhstadt

Epic Member
Mar 24, 2011
2,980
57
48
south "Murica
Let's just say it wasn't Pita Pit that had me puking spinach all over your bathroom.


"Suck the chrome off a trailer hitch" lmao what Oklahoma truck stop men's room did you pick that up from?
your Dad actually told me that's how "she" made all my money when I picked "her" up from glory hole at the loves on I40 and macarthur I dropped him off at.