New Study Finds 1 in 5 Washes

MvG

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2010
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Yo Front Door
Awesome!! Maybe if they gave brownies away after passing your pv and checking out people wouldn't wash out as much...
 

alzy

Senior Analyst
Jan 21, 2010
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Earth
I like the line in that where it says that the FAA are "struggling" to hire new controllers. WTF? What about the thousands of us waiting to be hired? That should alleviate some of these so called "struggles"
 

Rosstafari

Daaaang.
Aug 17, 2008
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In the 80's, it was what, 1 out of 3? Half at best? The bar's been set much lower now, from what I understand.
 

whegner

Junior Member
Aug 24, 2009
127
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Back then the military attrition rate was about 60% at the schoolhouse and about 45% in OJT. The Navy/Marine Corps class I was in started with 24 and we graduated 9. Not so sure regarding the FAA but a lot of hires back then were direct hire out of the military with no to little time at OKC so i don't know what the OTS numbers looked like.
 

Radium

Epic Member
Jan 14, 2009
1,988
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Ya anyone can get checked out now... Hell I made it!

@wheg, that's cause the naval marines are 1/2 retard. Navy is full blown.
 

atcguruaf

Rico Suave
Jan 4, 2009
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Right here
If I can make it, anyone can make it. I think there are too many people that are lazy, or have a sense of entitlement. I've worked with several that would rather play ping pong than study. If people would just apply themselves and quit thinking they were going to make it just because daddy's a pilot, or mommy's a controller, or because they went to some college, etc. I think we'd see far less wash out. When I was in the military, 2/3 washed out on average. I was almost one of them. But when they told me "fail another test, and you're gone", I buckled down.

Hmm... maybe that's what needs to be told to people, instead of "well, if you don't get this one, we'll give you another shot", or b.s. like that, everyone should get threatened with being fired right off the bat! Yikes!
 

flyinrico

Trusted Member
Oct 28, 2009
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Guru...you're spot on! Too many trainee's think it's owed to them and get lazy. Hit the ground running and hit it hard and you'll have a legitimate shot.
 

mikecoyne34

Senior Analyst
Nov 19, 2009
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D10
They know they can't be terminated after 1 yr of employment. That's not a long time at all when you figure in academy time and class times at your facility, then the time you have to wait until you get on the floor.
I think all new hires should be tentative hires until they're checked out. Keeping their job is dependent upon them checking out. That could possibly solve the laziness dilemma. Besides, if a person isn't going to put forth the effort they need to go and someone needs to be hired who wants it.
I know from experience you can't train someone who doesn't want to put forth some effort and learn. They end up being the controller you can't even trust to be in flight data if they make it at all. Just a headache for everyone.
 

barty

Trusted Member
Sep 25, 2008
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If I can make it, anyone can make it. I think there are too many people that are lazy, or have a sense of entitlement. I've worked with several that would rather play ping pong than study. If people would just apply themselves and quit thinking they were going to make it just because daddy's a pilot, or mommy's a controller, or because they went to some college, etc. I think we'd see far less wash out. When I was in the military, 2/3 washed out on average. I was almost one of them. But when they told me "fail another test, and you're gone", I buckled down.

Hmm... maybe that's what needs to be told to people, instead of "well, if you don't get this one, we'll give you another shot", or b.s. like that, everyone should get threatened with being fired right off the bat! Yikes!
Agreed. While there is the occasional person who just isn't cut out for this line of work, most of the washouts I've seen/heard of while at my facility probably fall into your description.

If you strive to learn from your mistakes, ASK QUESTIONS when you're not sure about something, make a decision, right or wrong, you're probably 90-95% there already.
 

jamisjockey

Banned
Jan 10, 2010
2,832
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As a former AT10 TRACON CPC and OJTI who almost washed out of said facility (Yeah, I'll admit I got the training review board and second chance)....advice:

Never ever ever wait to issue a control instruction. I don't care if you got 2 on or 20 on. If you have time to think "I'll come back to that one", its already too late. Work slow when you're slow, and you won't learn to work fast when you're busy.


Barty and Guru give good advice as well.
 

JumperBones

Reft crosed trafficah
Dec 22, 2008
427
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Too sixah reft
They know they can't be terminated after 1 yr of employment. That's not a long time at all when you figure in academy time and class times at your facility, then the time you have to wait until you get on the floor.
I think all new hires should be tentative hires until they're checked out. Keeping their job is dependent upon them checking out.
I'm not sure where you're getting this from - I get you that some people are indeed lazy or have a sense of entitlement - but you're not bulletproof if you finish your year of probation. TRBs don't have to give extended hours or resume training, and generally if they don't the individual loses their job. While there's a drawn-out process, HR doesn't keep people around.

If you don't check out, no job. It's that simple.

All the getting through a year does is entitle someone to union representation.

The only 'automatic we'll keep you round' people are Center trainees...who automatically get the tower option.
 

Davo

Trusted Contributor
Mar 14, 2009
699
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Glad I am going to a level 7 up/down. I wish they would break it down into success rate at different facility levels and types as well as backgrounds. I am not trying to turn this into vra vs cit vs ots. I would just like to see if anything I have learned through CTI can help translate into a successful career.
 

Rosstafari

Daaaang.
Aug 17, 2008
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from 81 to 92 only 57% made it through because of "the screen." someone is putting the test online as we speak:

aerocenter non-radar trainer
Yeah, I just saw that the other day. All the screenshots look like they're based on the old course. Would be interesting for some of us new guys to try out, to either feel good about ourselves... or lucky.

I feel bad for the poor applicant who buys it in the hopes that he'll have an edge on OKC. "Uhhh... where's Ponca City? What's VKS?"