New York TRACON - N90

Zeppelinpilot

Rookie
May 20, 2009
43
0
6
Anyone know any information about the NYICC?(New York Integrated Control Complex)

It is a facility that is supposedly supposed to combine N90 and ZNY.

Location: ?

I would like to know where the proposed location(s)/timeline would be...if anyone has any "open source" info on it.

...Calverton would be nice.
unfortunately, the FAA has not dropped it's plans for the NYICC. That is not to say that it is actually going to happen, but their pursuit of it has not let up.

This is all part of their "NY/NJ/PHL Airspace Redesign Project" which started in 1998.

Watch all the videos at this link (if you can stomach them).

New York/New Jersey/Philadelphia Airspace Redesign - Videos
 

whynot

Rookie
Aug 23, 2008
52
0
6
Bid out of there as soon as possible. honestly its easier to get out of there as a trainee under new red book law article 42 sector 9 SWAP and ERR... My GF says not only are they not tolerant of other races, but its hard to certify..... Good Luck with folks who dont think outside the majority.
 
J

jetworkr

Guest
19 year N90 ATC veteran here. N90 was my first facility--I came in off the street after a civil service test. I failed the screen in OKC and worked data for 17 months before I went through OKC again and made it back to N90 as a controller.

When I walked through the doors at N90 I kept my head down, my ears open, and my nose in the books. It wasn't an easy road at first but I made it through because I listened to my instructors and I worked hard.

The biggest thing I see with new trainees over the last few years is they don't know the book, they don't take criticism well, and they act like they already earned the job.

Whether you think or know you can make it doesn't matter--show us you can do it by consistently doing it and you're in.
 

luna75

I am THE Pocket Ninja
Jun 18, 2008
1,510
4
38
39
farmingdale ny
19 year N90 ATC veteran here. N90 was my first facility--I came in off the street after a civil service test. I failed the screen in OKC and worked data for 17 months before I went through OKC again and made it back to N90 as a controller.

When I walked through the doors at N90 I kept my head down, my ears open, and my nose in the books. It wasn't an easy road at first but I made it through because I listened to my instructors and I worked hard.

The biggest thing I see with new trainees over the last few years is they don't know the book, they don't take criticism well, and they act like they already earned the job.

Whether you think or know you can make it doesn't matter--show us you can do it by consistently doing it and you're in.
Welcome aboard my man, please please give us some insight on N90, there is just sooo much speculation and rumor about how evil and hard it is to work there, I refuse to believe it, i'd rather hear from someone who actually works there....im dying to know what the training situation looks like and is it really true no one has checked out in over 2-3 years???
 
J

jetworkr

Guest
We've had 3 people certify in the last year in my area alone. STOP listening to disgruntled trainees who've washed out of N90 because they couldn't hack it or had poor work ethics. STOP listening to people who have never been to N90 and just spread rumors.

If you want a challenge come to N90, work and study hard, keep a good attitude and if you can work the traffic you're in.
 

luna75

I am THE Pocket Ninja
Jun 18, 2008
1,510
4
38
39
farmingdale ny
We've had 3 people certify in the last year in my area alone. STOP listening to disgruntled trainees who've washed out of N90 because they couldn't hack it or had poor work ethics. STOP listening to people who have never been to N90 and just spread rumors.

If you want a challenge come to N90, work and study hard, keep a good attitude and if you can work the traffic you're in.
Thank you! I dont necessarily believe anything thats been said about N90 in general, yes i understand that the traffic and complexity is really high but i cant believe no one has checked out since 2006, as a controller, you know how the rumors and crap spreads around, on this forum and a couple of other atc websites, that is the perceived notion about your facility, its full of hard ass, take no prisoner controllers and that it is one the hardest facilities in the US to checked out in, rookies run out the building crying, there are so many stupid little stories, I dont know where to begin.

Me personally, call me crazy but i would freaking LOOOOOOOVVVVEEE to get into N90 but i doubt that i will even get into the FAA before im 31 let alone there.....people call me weird b/c i love to work under pressure, i cant stand being bored and the harder something is, the more i like it....
 
May 1, 2010
34
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jetworkr hit the nail on the head. at zny we get trainees that come in and rip strips for a while right off the bat. they get used to those duties and dumb down without taking any initiative to monitor the sectors, open up the .65, or MEMORIZE their respective mou's. granted, our training department sucks in a very bad way. but they get used to not working for anything that when it comes time to actually start training, they're completely unprepared.

i'm considered one of the toughest trainers in my area. however, the areas i'm very strict in are the core areas you should already, for the most part, KNOW. if you don't know your airspace when you plug in, gtfo my position. if you don't know how to say, "decend and maintain" or "cross (VOR, VORTAC, etc) at (altitdude)", GTFO my position. btw, the second example of crossing restrictions, is a gray area. the instructions say to cross "at" an altitude. the example it gives is "cross AT AND MAINTAIN". then again, i haven't checked the .65 in the last few months or so, so it may have changed.

bottom line is, know the stuff that can be memorized. airspace, .65, mou's, loa's. if you can't show your trainer you want to be here, then places like n90 aren't for you. for those that aren't familiar with their airspace, it's one of the most complex areas in the WORLD. pump the amount of traffic that they do through that airspace and i defy anyone to say they wouldn't be impressed. i give a lot of respect to my brothers and sisters that work below me. my father worked there til '91.

and for anyone to say, "don't go to n90" or "pick out your tower" without actually working there is very ignorant. i know, first hand, that trainees are checking out there. i hear the younger voices hop on the landlines often, and some of them sound like they know what they're doing.
 
May 1, 2010
34
0
6
Anyone know any information about the NYICC?(New York Integrated Control Complex)

It is a facility that is supposedly supposed to combine N90 and ZNY.

Location: ?

I would like to know where the proposed location(s)/timeline would be...if anyone has any "open source" info on it.

...Calverton would be nice.
Crystal Palace? They been talking about that for at least 2 decades. Calverton is 2 min from my house so that'd be nice but they're talking about a casino there now... or an indoor ski resort. not gonna happen
 
May 1, 2010
34
0
6
Bid out of there as soon as possible. honestly its easier to get out of there as a trainee under new red book law article 42 sector 9 SWAP and ERR... My GF says not only are they not tolerant of other races, but its hard to certify..... Good Luck with folks who dont think outside the majority.
Sorry, but to say they're not tolerant of other races, sounds like she's disgruntled.
 

vector1122

Newcomer
Jul 30, 2010
19
0
1
Has anybody heard anything about their bid to N90 from 7/2010? I know they called my facility to ask about a release date but I havn't heard anything from them myself. For that matter did anyone else on this forum bid N90?
 

keithkeys

Trusted Contributor
Feb 13, 2009
673
1
18
Somewhere out There
Has anybody heard anything about their bid to N90 from 7/2010? I know they called my facility to ask about a release date but I havn't heard anything from them myself. For that matter did anyone else on this forum bid N90?
You should have received an offer letter, or if your facility can't release you for awhile that could be why.
 

splendor34

Newcomer
Aug 31, 2010
10
0
1
The one place in all of air traffic control not to go!

I saw a couple of posts about people wanting to go to n90 aka the ny tracon. Just thought I'd throw my experience out there for people who are thinking about going there to try and dissuade them. (say no)
I was hired a over a year ago and finally got out not to long ago.
First off there's a garbage incinerator literally at the fence and the wind blows all the smoke right into the parking lot.
When I got there it was so evident of the absolutely ridiculous war between natca and the faa. Your tossed into a room with every manager thats not on the floor where you meet the head of the tracon this weird little black man who's got a really expensive watch and spends more time in barbados where his family is then actually at the tracon. Most of the management I came to find out were just washed out controllers it's kinda funny theres one GUY named hillary the OM who didnt even make it as a controller so they promoted him over the years until he had an office downstairs and all that just for being a flight data person. Common theme there if you don't make it as a controller the faa seems to promote you.
Then I met the union and they freaked out because a union rep wasn't with you at that meeting. Then of course you meet terry tracey the training manager. Shes universally unliked shes a smug little troll of a woman who obviously is divorced for many reasons. (Literally everyone hates her its kinda funny and she knows it). She really doesn't give a shit about anything. One day we estimated how many people come and go she has about a 3% success rate over the last three years. I don't say that as a ha ha joke its literaly the percentage of controllers who have checked out in the past 3 years just 3 percent and that includes previous fpls. Its a joke she gets paid six figures to do nothing but be a lawn gnome (makes me question the us government these days). After all that fun was over I got to get cuddly with all the controllers. I'm not gonna take anything away from them there good and severly overworked and if your not from new york its kinda hard to take them. me personally it wasn't really a big deal but if your from kansas or oregon as we had 4 guys come from and leave I can understand why most people can't take it. There actually kinda funny I can see how the place use to be awesome to work at back in the pushing tin days. (They will talk about you more or less infront of your face and you can't say a word). Of course you have your dicks and asshole mixed in but it is what it is. As a trainee you immediately get to hear about all the drama whos getting fired whos getting sent somewhere else who's review board it is tomorrow. I watched a class of 4 get fired my first week. Then you start class which is fun the map and such and all 56 frequencies and handoffs undoubtedly people won't make it from there. Some teachers who are controllers are easier then others it just depends. That turns into the sims which are fun I remember counting the airplanes you have to work to get out of the lab its 56 in an hour problem the airplanes stop coming out at about 40 mins. Your working 56 airplanes in 40 mins no easy task even for someone with experience.(just remember theres three airports 8 flying miles across and your sop and rules to follow are a 2 inch binder think) Basically when all is said and done 1 person out of the 4 if your lucky will make the other three just get fired. I saw whole classes not make it and get fired. Terry Tracey being the wonderful person she is.(great lawn decor though)
Then you also have to contend with who you can and cant talk to i.e. the bonus babies when the tracon offered that 100 grand to go there. Yea well you can't talk to those controllers and neither does anyone else they just try there hardest to make their lives living hell. There all thrown into one area because every controller refused to train them. (except this one black guy in lga) I feel bad for him they don't talk to him and they literally try to :p:p:p:p him when he works i watched a fun fight with him and another controller as i was walking out once.

I'd like to say about 30% of the floor managers are good guys maybe a little more. They deal with the controllers and most eventually stop screwing them over because they deal so much with the controllers. Every area has those couple of guys

Then you have all the natca meetings that are optionally mandatory.
I mean once all thats said and done. I found it kinda entertaining i looked foward to going to work there. There was always some entertaining drama every day there. However, it is a giant snake pit. Its fun to watch everyone else get screwed until it happens to you though. I can tell you plenty of stories of guys who were there for 2 years only to get washed out when they could have gone to any level 8 or 9 tower and been checked out in a year maybe less. When your a trainee too cti ots vra whatever you are the union seems to have whats in your best interest for you but i kinda question it because i know they didnt agree with all the ots and cti people going there.
In the next couple of years newark area is screwed everyones retiring no one wants to go there so they started putting trainees in that area lets just say there going to have to figure something else out. So if you did get checked out you run the risk of getting shipped over there.
I mean if your all about being the alpha male feel free to go to the tracon. All I'm saying is i could be at ft lauderdale airport making 90 grand and happy with all my hair intact and probably some beautiful blonde every night.
Its a love hate relationship there. If your not liked your screwed if your not really good your screwed. It is entertaining there though I'll say that much about it. If you really gotta stay in ny go to the center it takes about 4 years to check out there it takes 2 1/2 at the tracon. Its worth knowing you won't get fired and you get paid the same 200 grand plus they really dont wash out many people or that you won't get shipped to west virginia.
 

julietlima

Junior Member
Feb 9, 2010
120
0
16
OKC, OK
Re: The one place in all of air traffic control not to go!

Thanks for posting this. I hate to hear that you had this kind of experience though. I just goes to show that things need to change within the FAA. Im not an FAA employee but talking with FAA and exFAA employees..it just seems evident. I've also heard that if controllers cant cut it then they get promoted into management...at least that's what my instructors tell me. Sounds like this is still true according to your story. It seems like sending anyone with no previous air traffic experience to a place like this is like shooting yourself in the foot!?! When/If I get hired, I hope I get sent to a facility with a good vibe and one where NATCA and the FAA get along. But we will just have to wait and see the outcome. Regardless of where Im sent..Im going to do the best that I can do. Good luck to you and once again, thanks for your honest story.
 

admin

Administrator
Staff member
Jun 11, 2008
4,166
4
38
Re: The one place in all of air traffic control not to go!

Just a heads up, I am going to merge this with the N90 thread under the ATC facility info forum. Thanks for the heads up on this. I have heard about 75% of what you wrote so it is good to halfway verify it.