Non-radar tips

Towns2dd

Trusted Contributor
Jan 20, 2010
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What are the keys to being successful on non-radar positions in the academy/en-route facility? I struggled a bit in my CTI school in my non-radar class. My problem was the ability to "see" the traffic. I want to hear from all of you who are en-route controllers/academy students/ and CTI students.
 

SCOPED

Senior Analyst
Nov 21, 2010
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Gods Country, Alaska
What are the keys to being successful on non-radar positions in the academy/en-route facility? I struggled a bit in my CTI school in my non-radar class. My problem was the ability to "see" the traffic. I want to hear from all of you who are en-route controllers/academy students/ and CTI students.
I struggled too, Until I had the map seared into my brain it was very tough. We only did 6 hours of sim time on Non-radar so no one really got the hang of it. I also realized with so many rules it gives you ample choices but instead of trying to use all the rules find a few that you know well and make them work where ever you can.
 

aaronavtr

Trusted Contributor
Sep 26, 2009
551
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Northeast U.S.
At my cti there was a who class offered specifically for non radar. That was what the whole class throughout the semester was about. We spent the first 2 weeks studying the airspace, 2nd 2 weeks on flight strip/routes + aircraft speed/time formulas and then had a test on it.

From what I grasped, those who had the airspace commited to memory, the better they did. The ones who didn't you can tell cause they were freakin out.:willy:
 

jholw311

Trusted Contributor
May 27, 2009
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PARKER, COLORADO
Yeah I am studying a bunch, trying to figure it all out. I am also planning on taking a non radar class at Aims CC in the spring if I get a class date in late spring early summer...but anyone's advice on what to study, and look over would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
 

SCOPED

Senior Analyst
Nov 21, 2010
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Gods Country, Alaska
Is non-radar still PASS-PASS at OKC?
There are now 2 non-radar problems that are scored and they are worth 7 points a piece. Then there are 3 radar problems worth 22 points each. Other points awarded for map test and class work. It is now a cumulative grade versus one day showing up and everything depends on the final PV. The Final PV still makes and breaks people as I understand but it is not the once end all be all of before. This is just regurgitated material that I have read in the forms, I have not actually been to the academy yet and had the pleasure of being bent over the strip board and spanked.
 

lowapproach

Epic Member
Oct 29, 2010
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WV
If it's anything like it was when I went through in 2003 (at the time, Aero Center Sector 2 overlay TUL, BVO and MIO), you'll get lots and lots of practice running problems and watching other people run them.

My first three A1s were for a failure to tell the airplane in question to maintain his last assigned altitude until crossing my boundary. A few dead airplanes later, I learned not to treat a check-in as proof that the airplane was inside my airspace.

You'll get taught all the tricks for dealing with conflicts. You'll have two airplanes head-on on one of your V airways at the same altitude, and you'll clear one to an intermediate fix while you climb the other one (the "paper stop"). Maybe you'll have a departure climbing above an inbound on the same V airway by telling the inbound to join an arc 10 miles away from the point where the departure will cross 1000 feet above the inbound's altitude. Maybe that seems like Greek to you now, but after a week of that stuff, you'll have seen most of what you can do.

More succinctly, don't sweat it now. Just learn your map and the distances now, so you'll know where the cutoffs for separation will be later. Practice if you have to, and obsess over your mistakes until you can run clean problems reliably.
 

jtomes

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2010
270
1
18
Memphis TN
non radar is now 14 percent of your overall grade in okc. i would agree know your map first of all, second be comfortable with your phraseology. as far as in your facility it's quite different unless your in oceanic or have some mountains in your sector but as far as losing radar and going full non radar they wouldn't do... they'd just go ATC 0 and shut ya down
 

Rosstafari

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Aug 17, 2008
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What are the keys to being successful on non-radar positions in the academy/en-route facility? I struggled a bit in my CTI school in my non-radar class. My problem was the ability to "see" the traffic. I want to hear from all of you who are en-route controllers/academy students/ and CTI students.
It's really not that tough... just tended to be the poorer students who struggled with it.

Other than the obvious one of knowing the map, practicing on your off time helped. There are now two strip boards made by friends of mine circulating around OKC, so you can get your hands on one of those if you need, but it's not necessary. Just keep your strips, arrange three strip bays on a big enough table top, and rerun the problem. You may want to make some new ones so you're not able to look at what you wrote and copy it down. You can do it alone if you need, although it's nice if there's somebody there to be the ghost pilot and to look over what you're doing.
 

RomeoNovember

Senior Analyst
Sep 26, 2009
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USA
Wow, I hope and pray you don't end up in an en-route facility.
That would be a good thing if he ended up at a center, they all have radar, except a few sectors that have islands in the middle of the ocean with no radar (Free-port Bahamas). I talked to many people at the center and they never use non-radar.
 

Rosstafari

Daaaang.
Aug 17, 2008
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That would be a good thing if he ended up at a center, they all have radar, except a few sectors that have islands in the middle of the ocean with no radar (Free-port Bahamas). I talked to many people at the center and they never use non-radar.
Plenty of non-radar at Centers. Tons in Alaska, good amounts where terrain blocks coverage (Denver, Seattle, etc), and then the oceanic parts like you said. About anywhere that borders Mexico. And anywhere that you run approach without radar or just have gaps in coverage. We use it in two sectors in my area.

There's plenty of time to learn it at the Academy, and you review it all several times once you get to where you're going. Whether or not you learned it in CTI isn't really a big deal at all. There were four in the most recent group; three OTS and one CTI who said she spent about two days on non-radar. All did fine with it in OKC.
 

UNDATCer

Trusted Member
Apr 5, 2009
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North Dakota
I have a question about Non-Radar... Does anyone know how a Non-Radar Approach Control works? Does it work just like it does in the Center enviornment? Do you have to go back to the academy for the non-radar section of RTF?

I ask because I might be going to a facility which has a non-radar approach control and was just wondering if anyone could explain further on how that works. Thanks!!
 

mbalunda

Epic Member
Jan 31, 2009
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That would be a good thing if he ended up at a center, they all have radar, except a few sectors that have islands in the middle of the ocean with no radar (Free-port Bahamas). I talked to many people at the center and they never use non-radar.
I don't want to say we go non-radar all the time, but it's not terribly uncommon. There isn't much terrain that prevents us from having radar coverage on a regular basis like at some centers, but radar sites often go down for planned maintenence. Just last week we had to have any AC going into a certain sector at FL230 or below on non radar routes because of maintence.

It can def make things a pain in the ass, especially when it's an unplanned outage.

Honestly I was terrible at non radar in OKC, of course I didn't really care either, because when I was there it was simply pass/pass. With it actually counting towards your overall grade now I'd suggest you take it more seriously than I did :lol: