Northwest Flight 188 Pilots Blame ATC

NewsBot

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The Northwest Airlines pilots whose FAA certificates were revoked after they overflew their intended destination with a planeload of passengers have appealed to the NTSB for a review, and both cited failures by air traffic control as a "causal or contributing cause" in the incident. Capt. Timothy Cheney, 54, of Gig Harbor, Wash., and First Officer Richard Cole, 54, of Salem, Ore., stated in documents filed with the NTSB that controllers didn't follow rules and practices as described in the FAA's ATC manual and failed to coordinate effectively with Northwest dispatchers. National Air Traffic Controllers Association spokesman Doug Church told the Associated Press he couldn't comment on the matter because NATCA is a party to the ongoing NTSB investigation. Cole also said he shouldn't take a full share of the blame since he relied on Cheney to take responsibility for the flight as the flying pilot. Both pilots said that since they filed reports about the incident with NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System, sanctions should be waived.

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Use this thread to discuss the article above. What are your thoughts about: Northwest Flight 188 Pilots Blame ATC?
 

Roddy_Piper

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Jun 15, 2008
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controllers didn't follow rules and practices as described in the FAA's ATC manual and failed to coordinate effectively with Northwest dispatchers.

Northwest Flight 188 Pilots Blame ATC?
what rules? i'm not aware of any FAA mandated coordination with dispatchers. last time I checked my comm panel has no ring line to NWA dispatch.

these f#ckers are reaching. blame everyone else cuz u were doing some stupid sh!t in the cockpit and overflew your airport. what a bunch of idiots.
 
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djmodifyd

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you guys getting briefings on when/how/why we are supposed to contact the DEN?
 

Raptor

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Jun 21, 2008
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These two jackasses better hope if they get their licenses back no controllers
recognize their voices cause they are gonna get some real poor service if I do.
 

atcguruaf

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Jan 4, 2009
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Right here
Although reaching and unfair, they're trying to save what's left of their career. Think about it... If you made a mistake, would you not do everything in your power to CYA? It's wrong, I know, and we should all be accountable to our own. But what's the worst that can happen? A controller won't get fired because of this situation. Worst to come of this is possibly some remedial training, but at least the pilots get to keep their job/pensions, they are 54, afterall.

I'm the biggest prick/hard ass when it comes to my controlling techniques. So believe me, I'm on "our" side on this one. I'm just saying that you can't blame the pilots for trying to do everything in their power to not get fired, or at minimum, so they can keep their pensions.

Have any of you made a grave mistake? DUI? Done drugs but got away with it? Taken to jail? Stolen? Etc. I agree that a slap on the wrist is insufficient punishment, but the fact of the matter remains: they're just trying to do what any one of us would do, and that is keep our jobs in a suckass economy.
 

The Fold

Transmitting in the Blind
Apr 15, 2009
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Technically though, they're right. If they filed NASA reports, they can't be punished. But I also think that they recently got rid of the NASA program.
 

jcpilot

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May 19, 2009
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Technically though, they're right. If they filed NASA reports, they can't be punished. But I also think that they recently got rid of the NASA program.
The NASA program is still going strong. It's been one of the best programs the FAA has instituted.

However, in this case, even if they filed a ASRS form, it wouldn't have helped them. Filing an ASRS report cannot help you if the incident brings into question your qualifications or competency.

ASRS - Aviation Safety Reporting System
 

Roddy_Piper

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Jun 15, 2008
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are you not a CIC?
no, not right now.

i used to be a CIC, WS, SC, etc and i still don't know of binding responsibilities reference calling airline dispatch. i know i COULD call NWA operations but it doesn't mean i have to call them. i'd rather just ask company on one of the in-house frequencies to send a message via ACARS. i have no business calling a company dispatch. period.

still...it took 150 miles or 30 minutes before the pilots even reestablished radio contact. FARs bind them harder about actively monitoring the assigned ATC frequency (in Class A no less) than it does ATC management in a NORDO situation.

all i'm saying is they need to get their own house in order before they go next door and make a mess.
 
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djmodifyd

Guest
no, not right now.

i used to be a CIC, WS, SC, etc and i still don't know of binding responsibilities reference calling airline dispatch. i know i COULD call NWA operations but it doesn't mean i have to call them. i'd rather just ask company on one of the in-house frequencies to send a message via ACARS. i have no business calling a company dispatch. period.

still...it took 150 miles or 30 minutes before the pilots even reestablished radio contact. FARs bind them harder about actively monitoring the assigned ATC frequency (in Class A no less) than it does ATC management in a NORDO situation.

all i'm saying is they need to get their own house in order before they go next door and make a mess.
oh..i totally agree with you...i was just curious as to why you didn't get the DEN breifing..must be for CIC/WCIC/Sups only....
oh..and no..at least at my facility we are not supposed to get a hold of dispatch
 

gopack1979

Junior Member
Mar 22, 2009
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Man up...I can't stand Pansy's. Pilot error, case closed. These guys were doing everything EXCEPT flying that airplane. These two are the reason I drive just about everywhere I go nowadays...DAP's
 

chrisskoo

Newcomer
May 23, 2009
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you guys getting briefings on when/how/why we are supposed to contact the DEN?
Yeah we're getting the DEN briefings, but if we really have to call out the Marine's for ever Tom, Dick, and Harry that goes NORDO for 5 minutes we'll never do anything else. It's a daily occurrence in air traffic, no big deal most of the time.