PATCO Members of SERCO: Don't believe the lies about SERCO NA being under-funded...

dfiantii

Senior Member
Jun 8, 2009
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Might I make a suggestion, if you going to make these claims maybe you should be more specific and call out the individual facilities and point out there faults or issues. Right now your just like calling WOLF on the whole company. Really unprofessional if you ask me. Make your case instead of just accusations with a big brush.... Just my 02 cents but what do I know...
 

Delta5

Rookie
May 3, 2010
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Name one promise made by Patco that was ever kept. 1981? Nope Fired. 2010 better benefits than what Serco has offered everyone else. Nope. Wasted money going to a job losing Union. Bingo! Don't go away mad. Just go away!!!!!!!!!!
 

Rosstafari

Daaaang.
Aug 17, 2008
1,149
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/X
Kids, if you have a coherent argument to put forth, please do so. Otherwise, take it to PMs, because having to referee every single post of yours in here is getting tiresome for us.
 

Bravejango

Senior Member
Oct 20, 2009
254
0
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Mustang, OK
again he is just reposting a video that i posted about 2 and a half months ago that explains where all of serco's profit numbers come from he has yet to post factual information on what serco's ATC profit compared to operating costs it is unreasonable for anyone to expect a company to take profit from one sector of the business and put it into something completely different. the only reason to do so is if they are losing money in that sector and it needs a boost. and if they were neglecting air safety so much why haven't we heard about more incidents at contract facilities run by serco. in what ways are they neglecting air safety?
 

DCATC

Rookie
Nov 2, 2009
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There are Serco employees who went on that thread and gave examples of how they are neglecting air safety. Does that entire thread need to be rehashed for you to understand?

them getting there hours cut back and single duty does not justify neglecting safety. you can run almost all FCT towers single man, the ones you cant shouldnt be in the FCT program, and should go back to the FAA.

sorry for those that had it sweet getting paid to do nothing, but now that you work stop complaining, its just like the flight service people that went from not answering call after call, to actually doing something during the day.
 

Patrick_Bateman

Junior Member
Jun 16, 2010
102
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Manhattan
them getting there hours cut back and single duty does not justify neglecting safety. you can run almost all FCT towers single man, the ones you cant shouldnt be in the FCT program, and should go back to the FAA.

sorry for those that had it sweet getting paid to do nothing, but now that you work stop complaining, its just like the flight service people that went from not answering call after call, to actually doing something during the day.
There are dozens of FCT towers that cannot be run single man coverage. Your proposal to return those towers to the FAA will never happen. So when SERCO further cut the manning in several towers, you somehow don't see that as a safety issue? Someone working five 60 to 70+ operation hours in a row without a bathroom break is cool? How is that not an issue of safety?

What about SERCO eliminating sick time unless you want to pay for it out of your own 401K? That is directly encouraging people to come to work sick. Can you control busy air traffic alone for several hours with H1N1 flu while at optimal duty levels? Would it be fun to sequence planes to land number six or seven with a 103 degree fever whilst barfing into a trashcan? How is that not a safety issue? Please enlighten me.

All I'm getting out of this is you have taken an issue with PATCO because the FAA won't take back certain contract towers. It sounds like you need to be writing your congressman and talking to NATCA about your desire to bring back more contract towers to the FAA, not sitting on a public message forum ripping on the local union organizer who is actually fighting for some change for these contract workers. Talk about misguided anger management issues.
 

Delta5

Rookie
May 3, 2010
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Patco members don't believe the lies of Patco! Contract towers are binded by contracts with the FAA. When the Companies bid on these contracts its based on the current Labor Standards for pay and vacation.
This is what they base making a profit from. Patco knew this and tried to make an issue because Serco pulled back to what the FAA requires. Common sense says a company bids a contract to make money. They hire contracted employees. No one puts a gun to thier heads and makes them work. They are free to move on. Patco believes that the companies should give any gains to the workers. If that were so than there would be no companies thus no jobs. So I guess 1981 was the highlight of Patco.
No jobs!
 

Patrick_Bateman

Junior Member
Jun 16, 2010
102
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Manhattan
Patco members don't believe the lies of Patco! Contract towers are binded by contracts with the FAA. When the Companies bid on these contracts its based on the current Labor Standards for pay and vacation.
This is what they base making a profit from. Patco knew this and tried to make an issue because Serco pulled back to what the FAA requires. Common sense says a company bids a contract to make money. They hire contracted employees. No one puts a gun to thier heads and makes them work. They are free to move on. Patco believes that the companies should give any gains to the workers. If that were so than there would be no companies thus no jobs. So I guess 1981 was the highlight of Patco.
No jobs!
Not even close to true. SERCO and other contractors have a lot of leeway. The FAA doesn't impose any real pay rules on the contractor other than the DOL minimums. Everything above and beyond that is subject to the individual contractor.

The COLA and other pay allowances, which the FAA has absolutely NOTHING TO DO WITH, is what SERCO cut the crap out of. Things like company paid sick time, housing allowances, and COLA the FAA has no jurisdiction over at all. SERCO claimed to hire on a third party to determine an appropriate cost of living allowance for all the AK/Hawaii towers (and a few in other areas like CA). Funny how magically it got cheaper to live in all of these areas over the last decade because SERCO cut the pay from ALL THESE LOCATIONS! Wow! Who knew you could live in Hawaii for almost the same pay as someone in Wyoming.

This has nothing to do with the FAA. It is a SERCO specific issue. Please take your personal vendetta against PATCO to private messages or off topic!
 

Bravejango

Senior Member
Oct 20, 2009
254
0
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Mustang, OK
Not even close to true. SERCO and other contractors have a lot of leeway. The FAA doesn't impose any real pay rules on the contractor other than the DOL minimums. Everything above and beyond that is subject to the individual contractor.

The COLA and other pay allowances, which the FAA has absolutely NOTHING TO DO WITH, is what SERCO cut the crap out of. Things like company paid sick time, housing allowances, and COLA the FAA has no jurisdiction over at all. SERCO claimed to hire on a third party to determine an appropriate cost of living allowance for all the AK/Hawaii towers (and a few in other areas like CA). Funny how magically it got cheaper to live in all of these areas over the last decade because SERCO cut the pay from ALL THESE LOCATIONS! Wow! Who knew you could live in Hawaii for almost the same pay as someone in Wyoming.

This has nothing to do with the FAA. It is a SERCO specific issue. Please take your personal vendetta against PATCO to private messages or off topic!
your right its subject to the contractor if you don't like the pay and benefits then quit if enough of you that are whining about cuts in an economy that serco is having to protect itself against quit then maybe they will start looking at people with less then 2 years experience and i can get a decent paying job in a field that i love. i will gladly work for the pay and benefits that serco employees are currently getting.
 

atcguruaf

Rico Suave
Jan 4, 2009
1,373
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Right here
It's not that easy to quit. That's like telling an aerospace engineer to go work at McDonald's and be happy about it because you were laid off from your 100K job.

My point to that statement is what about the controllers who were hired BEFORE they took away benefits? When I worked for Serco, I thought it was fair. We earned 1 week of paid sick time and 1 week of paid vacation after 1 year of completed service.

Compared to the other Contract companies, this seemed fair to me. Not to mention that most everyone I know either doesn't get sick/vacation time, or get the same deal.

However, at the time, I went into the job knowing I would be receiving these benefits (I got picked up by the FAA before they took away benefits). Knowing that I would receive these benefits made me feel more comfortable about taking the job. Had these benefits not been offered, my thought process for accepting the offer may have changed.

Given that information, what are people supposed to do that were in that same predicament? All of a sudden, the benefits you WERE offered are now being taken away. So the simple answer is "quit, if you don't like it"?? That doesn't make any sense. I understand the concept, but once you're established somewhere, it's not like picking up and moving to a different location is easy to do. Not to mention, if you quit to work at Walgreens just to receive some sort of benefits, you're not making as much money.

So the house you bought, the car you bought, etc. would be unmanageable by taking a job elsewhere, not to mention the move itself.

It's the same thing with the 1500 (or whatever number it was) that got screwed out of pay by the FAA. They came in WITH a contract stating what they would receive. Only to have it taken away. That is not only unfair, but seems to be illegal.


New people coming in? Ya, either take the job or don't. If you were prior military, maybe you shouldn't have gotten out? If you're retired FAA, you're probably not concerned with sick time anyway, as you'll take off whatever days you damn well please.

So, I see both sides of the argument, but the only ones I feel for are the ones that actually used to receive these benefits.
 

Patrick_Bateman

Junior Member
Jun 16, 2010
102
0
16
Manhattan
your right its subject to the contractor if you don't like the pay and benefits then quit if enough of you that are whining about cuts in an economy that serco is having to protect itself against quit then maybe they will start looking at people with less then 2 years experience and i can get a decent paying job in a field that i love. i will gladly work for the pay and benefits that serco employees are currently getting.

First of all, you need to learn to type in complete sentences and use some punctuation. Some of your points run right into one another and I'm left feeling like I'm attempting to look over a seventh grader's english class assignment on foreign economics after about eleven beers.

You can't just tell people to quit their jobs after they've been working there for a few years or longer. A lot of us have kids, families, and mortgage payments. Your suggestion is terrible and not feasible for a large majority of contract workers until they find a better job. People shouldn't have had their benefits that they signed up with taken away for sheer corporate profit greed. Its total crap!

And you'll notice that SERCO does constantly have job openings on their website. If you want to "Take it in the anus" on a regular basis, I suggest looking over their website sometime.
 

atcguruaf

Rico Suave
Jan 4, 2009
1,373
0
36
Right here
First of all, you need to learn to type in complete sentences and use some punctuation. Some of your points run right into one another and I'm left feeling like I'm attempting to look over a seventh grader's english class assignment on foreign economics after about eleven beers.

You can't just tell people to quit their jobs after they've been working there for a few years or longer. A lot of us have kids, families, and mortgage payments. Your suggestion is terrible and not feasible for a large majority of contract workers until they find a better job. People shouldn't have had their benefits that they signed up with taken away for sheer corporate profit greed. Its total crap!

And you'll notice that SERCO does constantly have job openings on their website. If you want to "Take it in the anus" on a regular basis, I suggest looking over their website sometime.
I think you meant "It's" or "It is".... :jester:
 

RdRunnr12

Epic Member
May 10, 2009
1,569
9
38
First of all, you need to learn to type in complete sentences and use some punctuation. Some of your points run right into one another and I'm left feeling like I'm attempting to look over a seventh grader's english class assignment on foreign economics after about eleven beers.

You can't just tell people to quit their jobs after they've been working there for a few years or longer. A lot of us have kids, families, and mortgage payments. Your suggestion is terrible and not feasible for a large majority of contract workers until they find a better job. People shouldn't have had their benefits that they signed up with taken away for sheer corporate profit greed. Its total crap!

And you'll notice that SERCO does constantly have job openings on their website. If you want to "Take it in the anus" on a regular basis, I suggest looking over their website sometime.

It's apparent you didn't take too many business classes to see how a corportation works. No business will stay afloat if they have to continue subsidizing their other operations. In terms you might understand better, you don't steal from peter to pay paul.
The argument that management got a raise is such garbage; it's been stated before that they were only given enough money to get them slightly above their controller's pay. Is it unreasonable for a manager to make more than their employees? Of course not. They have a lot more resonsibility.

SERCO is not the only company making benefit changes right now. Be happy you have health insurance, that is a huge expense that many companies are cutting. Corporations exist to make money, not lose it. 10% of our country is on unemployment waiting to take your job if you're unhappy. Beggars can't be choosers these days. Is it SERCO's fault that your only skill is ATC and can't find other work?......
 

dfiantii

Senior Member
Jun 8, 2009
156
0
16
First of all, you need to learn to type in complete sentences and use some punctuation. Some of your points run right into one another and I'm left feeling like I'm attempting to look over a seventh grader's english class assignment on foreign economics after about eleven beers.

You can't just tell people to quit their jobs after they've been working there for a few years or longer. A lot of us have kids, families, and mortgage payments. Your suggestion is terrible and not feasible for a large majority of contract workers until they find a better job. People shouldn't have had their benefits that they signed up with taken away for sheer corporate profit greed. Its total crap!

And you'll notice that SERCO does constantly have job openings on their website. If you want to "Take it in the anus" on a regular basis, I suggest looking over their website sometime.
I think that was VERY professional of you to bash and at the same time try to make your point. Make your point and move on. Companies can do whatever they please hence why they are privately owned. As long as they don't break the law who are you and I to tell them what they can and cannot do with THEIR money. We all make a choice everyday one whether we want to "take it in the anus" your words not mine. We either "suck it up" cause the bills get paid, or we move on to something that will pay the bills.

If COLA and all these benefits were not required by the Fed for these positions then guess what " they can take them back or do away with them if they feel like it." It is their company and their choice to continue to pay these things outside of the required salary wage. Guess what, the FAA could cut all those blings they have going on tomorrow if they wanted to and what could You or I say? Oh they are in crouching on safety also?

I love to hear people talk about what they feel a company should pay and should not pay for outside of the company wage they offer. Sounds like my Democrat friends that continue to believe that the FED should tax the rich to give to the poor like some damn Robin Hood.

If anyone has the link to the other thread thats been talked about could you post it please? I would love to read it and hear about these examples.
 

Bravejango

Senior Member
Oct 20, 2009
254
0
16
Mustang, OK
First of all, you need to learn to type in complete sentences and use some punctuation. Some of your points run right into one another and I'm left feeling like I'm attempting to look over a seventh grader's english class assignment on foreign economics after about eleven beers.

You can't just tell people to quit their jobs after they've been working there for a few years or longer. A lot of us have kids, families, and mortgage payments. Your suggestion is terrible and not feasible for a large majority of contract workers until they find a better job. People shouldn't have had their benefits that they signed up with taken away for sheer corporate profit greed. Its total crap!

And you'll notice that SERCO does constantly have job openings on their website. If you want to "Take it in the anus" on a regular basis, I suggest looking over their website sometime.
again because serco only accepts people with 2 years experience of ATC experience i am unable to be hired with only a CTO. so if you and everyone else with problems with serco want to whine and bitch about having things that the company gave you when they could afford to and took them away when it was no longer feasible really hate the company so much will just quit maybe i will be considered.