PATCO Members of SERCO: Don't believe the lies about SERCO NA being under-funded...

Rosstafari

Daaaang.
Aug 17, 2008
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Heh. Now, the VRAs who add a CTI on and THEN get passed over... those guys have a pretty good reason to be mad. They should just get a free pass in, redeemable for wherever. With facility pay. And a free carwash from Randy Babbitt.

Anyway... /threadjack
 

DCATC

Rookie
Nov 2, 2009
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ok for one last time, its a shame SERCO took away the sick time, maybe there profit margain shrunk and they bid lower so they had to get rid of a BENEFIT that is not a guarentee nor does the FAA pay for it.
as for getting rid of towers, its easy to follow, go to the FCT conference every year, or follow the financing of them, you can find out quickly if it will still be in the program of if they plan on adding any each year, so dont say its SERCO's fault for when you could of known just as easy, ESP when the RFP comes out and tells you EXACTLY which towers in which area you could bid on!
 

Patrick_Bateman

Junior Member
Jun 16, 2010
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ok for one last time, its a shame SERCO took away the sick time, maybe there profit margain shrunk and they bid lower so they had to get rid of a BENEFIT that is not a guarentee nor does the FAA pay for it.
as for getting rid of towers, its easy to follow, go to the FCT conference every year, or follow the financing of them, you can find out quickly if it will still be in the program of if they plan on adding any each year, so dont say its SERCO's fault for when you could of known just as easy, ESP when the RFP comes out and tells you EXACTLY which towers in which area you could bid on!

Sick time, pay cuts, and reduced manning. Not sure what you're suggesting here but if you're telling me to personally bid on the towers, that may just be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. What possible information can I get out of the fact that SERCO bid on certain towers? They already told us what they were bidding on last year.

And known what exactly? That they were going to cut the pay or that they were going to be reducing manning at several facilities? The pay cuts weren't brought in until well after the bid...like in May or June. That alone proves that it's a SERCO specific issue and has nothing to do with the bid or the FAA. If they truly bid it that way, when they got the contract again in January, they would have been forced to immediately make changes.

Instead they waited about five or six months to "make plans" for damage control when they decided they needed to increase profits. They deliberately chose to string along the bad news to reduce the chances of towers going union.
 

dfiantii

Senior Member
Jun 8, 2009
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Serco was wrong to string it along if thats what they did. I will tell you from my yrs in the ATC contract world overseas that what probably happened was that to keep the contracts, they would have to lower their bid to keep them. Well that means they have to make cuts and they should have said that at the beginning. Thats the problem with some companies today they think employees are the enemy just like politicians think the voters are the problem. I do think its nieve of some to believe that the issues of the economy and Obamacare even though it will not take effect for 4 yrs to not touch there work profession. I learned that the hard way when my wife who is a nurse lost her job luckily she got a new job 3 months later..
 

Patrick_Bateman

Junior Member
Jun 16, 2010
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They informed us that if they rewon the contract that they would be taking away our sick leave. This was probably around November of 2009. They won the contract around January 2010 and immediately took away everyone's sick time...even people who still had 40 hours on the books got it stripped.

The best part. They put out all these newsletters saying how much they still cared about everyone and that all the other contractors treat their employees worse. I also found this joyous Steve Christmas letter that specifically tells the Hawaii towers "Welcome Home!", right before he decided to massively cut their pay. It was one of those priceless moments for sure.

Sometime after that, I'm not sure when but could find it if its necessary, they decreased several facilities manning levels. This was not told to anyone until after the contract was awarded. They hired people on months before and then fired them without warning. This was premeditated and displaced people who had left FAA and DoD jobs.

May or June of 2010 they decided to cut the pay from the Alaska towers and Hawaii towers. They supposedly hired some third party agency to figure out the COLA for all these facilities. Funny but every single one of them was determined to be considerably cheaper to live than what we were getting paid. Some facilities walked away with only a minor change while others took 7 to 12 thousand dollar pay cuts!

I'm sorry but it did not suddenly become that much cheaper to live in Hawaii or Alaska. Only a complete douchebag would come to the conclusion that its cheaper to live in these locations over the last decade. They simply want more money and don't care about their employees any longer.
 

dfiantii

Senior Member
Jun 8, 2009
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Talk about f****** you without the courtesy of Vaseline or a reach around I wonder if I will get banned for that..
 

atcguruaf

Rico Suave
Jan 4, 2009
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Right here
Talk about f****** you without the courtesy of Vaseline or a reach around I wonder if I will get banned for that..
Yes. You will probably get banned for 1 of the following:

1. F***ing someone without using vaseline.

2. F***ing someone without giving a reach around.

3. Thinking it's appropriate to not even CONSIDER Vaseline....

or

4. If you were taking it, wouldn't you want a reach around? You're so selfish.

I know I would ban you for not giving someone a reach around.
 

DCATC

Rookie
Nov 2, 2009
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They informed us that if they rewon the contract that they would be taking away our sick leave. This was probably around November of 2009. They won the contract around January 2010 and immediately took away everyone's sick time...even people who still had 40 hours on the books got it stripped.

The best part. They put out all these newsletters saying how much they still cared about everyone and that all the other contractors treat their employees worse. I also found this joyous Steve Christmas letter that specifically tells the Hawaii towers "Welcome Home!", right before he decided to massively cut their pay. It was one of those priceless moments for sure.

Sometime after that, I'm not sure when but could find it if its necessary, they decreased several facilities manning levels. This was not told to anyone until after the contract was awarded. They hired people on months before and then fired them without warning. This was premeditated and displaced people who had left FAA and DoD jobs.

May or June of 2010 they decided to cut the pay from the Alaska towers and Hawaii towers. They supposedly hired some third party agency to figure out the COLA for all these facilities. Funny but every single one of them was determined to be considerably cheaper to live than what we were getting paid. Some facilities walked away with only a minor change while others took 7 to 12 thousand dollar pay cuts!

I'm sorry but it did not suddenly become that much cheaper to live in Hawaii or Alaska. Only a complete douchebag would come to the conclusion that its cheaper to live here over the last decade. They simply want more money and don't care about their employees any longer.
SO they did tell you about sick leave a year ago? again a benefit the company gave you, not required.
it does suck that they fired people without a heads up but this is a position of hire for an "at-will" job, when you signed on you know you could be fired at anytime.
yes the circumstances suck and I feel for you for aking away sick leave, but they did nothing illegal, and if you worked a regular 9-5 job and this happened there would not be much you could do, and you definitly wouldnt be looking at a PATCO to do anything.
 

Patrick_Bateman

Junior Member
Jun 16, 2010
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SO they did tell you about sick leave a year ago? again a benefit the company gave you, not required.
it does suck that they fired people without a heads up but this is a position of hire for an "at-will" job, when you signed on you know you could be fired at anytime.
yes the circumstances suck and I feel for you for aking away sick leave, but they did nothing illegal, and if you worked a regular 9-5 job and this happened there would not be much you could do, and you definitly wouldnt be looking at a PATCO to do anything.
They did some things that were considered borderline illegal like fire people on approved leave for no apparent reason as well as interfere will PATCO elections. Telling your employees to vote no on an election is illegal. SERCO was forced to make amends for several things they did.

As far as them cutting pay, removing sick time, and firing people. Sure its legal. They can do whatever they want. It still doesn't make it right. Especially when they prided themselves as a company that was different. A company that cared. Then they just make huge sweeping changes that screw over all the employees and tell us "Tough!".

We have no choice but to continue to take it or sign up with PATCO and see if we get some change. I've already stated that I couldn't be happier at this time. Bottom line is that they're making SERCO pay money, lose time, and just get plain angry in general. If you can't see why we would do this then you simply do not understand the entire situation. And we don't have to pay dues until they have some type of contract with SERCO in place. I don't see any downside.
 

RdRunnr12

Epic Member
May 10, 2009
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I don't see any downside.

Unless they get angry enough that they decide to strip down any other employer provided benefits and reduce your salary to the minimum allowable per DOL regulations. That would be a pretty big dowside and definitely a possibility as they deal with numerous frivelous alegations the PATCO presents just to be a thorn in their side and cost them money.
 

Patrick_Bateman

Junior Member
Jun 16, 2010
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Unless they get angry enough that they decide to strip down any other employer provided benefits and reduce your salary to the minimum allowable per DOL regulations. That would be a pretty big dowside and definitely a possibility as they deal with numerous frivelous alegations the PATCO presents just to be a thorn in their side and cost them money.
And a god damn huge meteorite may hit you while you're sleeping tonight, killing you instantly.

If SERCO was dumb enough to cut more pay, there is no way in hell they would be able to staff any of their towers in Hawaii/Alaska. You can barely afford to live there on what they're paying now. Subtract the rest and I personally guarantee you NOBODY will work there.

Watch the job openings dude. It's a big tell in what places got screwed in the butthole. There have already been several openings in the AK/Hawaii towers in the last few months. More will be coming. I wouldn't be surprised if they can't staff one of their towers and end up defaulting the contract to the FAA. Boy will that be funny!
 

atcguruaf

Rico Suave
Jan 4, 2009
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Hey, Frank, how's it going? Question. Can you show anything that improved conditions for towers that PATCO represented? For example:

Conditions prior to PATCO were XXX. After unionizing and negotiating, Conditions improved to XXX.

Or more specifically, benefits were XXX prior to PATCO, now they're XXX.

Stuff like that. I'm not against the cause, I just want to make sure it's actually helping. Unions, I feel, are necessary for companies that break/bend rules or are unjustified. I feel they help keep employers "in check". But if that's not going on at all, what's the point? I just feel that if you were to provide specifics and not generalizations, people would respond better. I'm one of the ones who feels what Serco is doing is screwed up. But is there any proof that you guys can help?

I mean, if towers join PATCO and fight for better "everything", but Serco says, screw you, take a hike, you're fired. What then?
 

RdRunnr12

Epic Member
May 10, 2009
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It takes a union to make and keep simple matters simple. It also requires a union to fight the larger battles unmanageable by the individual, and SERCO is a larger battle! Without a union, its a proven FACT that the ATC employees of SERCO will continue to experience more and more reductions in safety, staffing, pay, benefits, and COLA!
I'll be done posting in this thread after this, as it doesn't really concern me. BUT, the bolded part above is not a proven fact. You need to do some fact checking on the definition of fact because your slippery slope does not make something true.
 

Patrick_Bateman

Junior Member
Jun 16, 2010
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I'll be done posting in this thread after this, as it doesn't really concern me. BUT, the bolded part above is not a proven fact. You need to do some fact checking on the definition of fact because your slippery slope does not make something true.
It is a fact. If the union wasn't in place prior to the new contract bid with SERCO in January 2010, Glacier Park would have lost their one week of company paid sick time. That's a FACT! Every other SERCO facility lost it. SERCO did not skip that facility over out of kindness, they couldn't take it away because PATCO wouldn't let them.

You really think SERCO is gonna stop now? What happens when pay raises get people's pay too high? Time to just remove COLA altogether! Why stop there when they can take our 401K bonus? Heck, maybe they'll find a new way to screw us over even harder, like totally take away our vacation. I don't put anything past this company.
 

RdRunnr12

Epic Member
May 10, 2009
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It is a fact. If the union wasn't in place prior to the new contract bid with SERCO in January 2010, Glacier Park would have lost their one week of company paid sick time. That's a FACT! Every other SERCO facility lost it. SERCO did not skip that facility over out of kindness, they couldn't take it away because PATCO wouldn't let them.

You really think SERCO is gonna stop now? What happens when pay raises get people's pay too high? Time to just remove COLA altogether! Why stop there when they can take our 401K bonus? Heck, maybe they'll find a new way to screw us over even harder, like totally take away our vacation. I don't put anything past this company.
Okay, I'll take the bait.

The fact that everyone else lost those benefits does not make that a fact. It can't be proven as it did not happen. Can you speculate that it would have...yes. That does not make something a fact.
 

Patrick_Bateman

Junior Member
Jun 16, 2010
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Okay, I'll take the bait.

The fact that everyone else lost those benefits does not make that a fact. It can't be proven as it did not happen. Can you speculate that it would have...yes. That does not make something a fact.
Are you mad PATCO actually did something useful, so now you've moved on to arguing the definition of words with strangers on the internet? Is your life so sad that you can't go away from a thread that you have no interest in, effects you in no way whatsoever, and one that you just said you would leave yourself moments ago? Do you sit around idle for long periods of time on friday nights while eating bugles, wearing your custom tailored chain mail armor, drinking mead, and listening to the soundtrack from your favorite game known as Everquest?

SERCO tried to take Glacier Park's sick time. PATCO prevented it. Those are both facts. Only a sheer moron of epic proportions, high from huffing 13 cans of Readiwhip, would believe that in the event PATCO did not represent that tower, SERCO would have somehow magically skipped over that one facility. It doesn't make it a fact but its about a 99.99% certainty based on SERCO's observed behavior.
 

RdRunnr12

Epic Member
May 10, 2009
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So what you're trying to say is that I'm right? Thanks! To be honest, I like hanging around this thread because of how worked up you get over something you'll most likely never get fixed.

That's great that PATCO helped 1 whole tower. Good for them.

If Serco has recongnized PATCO in one location, why are they not bound in all locations? How are they able to organize on a tower by tower basis? It seems to me that 30% of all Serco controllers would need to support this unionization not just individual towers. I'm not an expert on labor relations, obviously, but that's my understanding of the requirements for a union to be recognized by an employer.
 

Patrick_Bateman

Junior Member
Jun 16, 2010
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So what you're trying to say is that I'm right? Thanks! To be honest, I like hanging around this thread because of how worked up you get over something you'll most likely never get fixed.

That's great that PATCO helped 1 whole tower. Good for them.

If Serco has recongnized PATCO in one location, why are they not bound in all locations? How are they able to organize on a tower by tower basis? It seems to me that 30% of all Serco controllers would need to support this unionization not just individual towers. I'm not an expert on labor relations, obviously, but that's my understanding of the requirements for a union to be recognized by an employer.
I don't get worked up, I actually enjoy finding funny things to make up or names to call people. So thanks to you for providing me with material. And fix what, exactly? You enjoy partaking in others misery? Demented much?

I admitted I misused the word fact but you failed to mention all the points I was right. You don't understand this. You have no interest in this as you have no affiliation with SERCO or PATCO. You said you'd stop posting in this thread. You probably do eat bugles and play dungeons and dragons on the weekend with stuffed animals. You're also a proven liar now as you keep posting.

PATCO has helped more than that but you seem to have a very basic reading comprehension problem. I'm not going to keep listing it over and over because it doesn't seem to get through to you. Probably because you don't really care to begin with. So take it from someone who does work for SERCO and is a member of PATCO. They're helping, you're not! Thanks for the concern though.
 

RdRunnr12

Epic Member
May 10, 2009
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I'm actually curious now. I asked some legitimate questions about Serco and their recognition of a union which you totally avoided.

By the way, resorting to name calling is not a useful tactic in trying to prove your point. I'm just a guy that believes in capitalism, limited government, and corporations owning their employment.

So again, how do individual towers unionize and not have it affect all of Serco? The way I understand unionization, an employer either recognizes a union or they don't. They don't get to pick and choose what locations they do or don't.