PATCO Members of SERCO: Don't believe the lies about SERCO NA being under-funded...

Patrick_Bateman

Junior Member
Jun 16, 2010
102
0
16
Manhattan
I'm actually curious now. I asked some legitimate questions about Serco and their recognition of a union which you totally avoided.

By the way, resorting to name calling is not a useful tactic in trying to prove your point. I'm just a guy that believes in capitalism, limited government, and corporations owning their employment.

So again, how do individual towers unionize and not have it affect all of Serco? The way I understand unionization, an employer either recognizes a union or they don't. They don't get to pick and choose what locations they do or don't.
I didn't avoid them so much as continue making fun of you. You're still a jerk by the way.

I'm not entirely sure of the logistics behind the entire process. I do know that individual towers can unionize, by any union, and be represented legally to the employer. For example some Midwest or RVA towers I believe are represented by NATCA and PATCO. There is also a fake PATCO that exists mostly as a copycat and rips off its members. There is probably a lot more to it than meets the eye.
 

upurs81

Rookie
Apr 27, 2010
50
0
6
The simple solution to all of this nonsense, requires the Serco controllers to take their heads out of the sand and stand up for what is right.

I have never, in my entire life, seen a work force so full of wimps! Serco knows it, and they help foster it. They dangle the carrot and the lemmings follow them to the cliffs.

I wish I knew what it would take to get these wussies mad enough to put their foot down and tell this overseas company to shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

I guess when Serco starts taking away the rest of the controllers benefits, maybe some of these people, who are currently sitting back and watching, will wake up to reality. Until that happens, the seven towers that have joined ranks, will have to fight the good fight, alone.
 

Rosstafari

Daaaang.
Aug 17, 2008
1,149
22
38
41
/X
Okay, I'll take the bait.
Me too!

The fact that everyone else lost those benefits does not make that a fact. It can't be proven as it did not happen. Can you speculate that it would have...yes. That does not make something a fact.
Don't get caught up in the semantics and miss the issue here. When every other tower without representation had a change forced upon them, in the absence another viable explanation (and the new presence of collective bargaining), it's more than reasonable to say that it was due to union action. Serco obviously didn't just give it to them and while denying it to the rest out of the kindness of their hearts.

Is it a "fact", strictly speaking, as in Serco created a press release that said that PATCO pushed it through? Eh, I dunno. But it's a clear result of union intervention. Time to acknowledge it and move on to other contentions.

That's great that PATCO helped 1 whole tower. Good for them.
Everybody's got to start somewhere. I don't think the question was whether they helped every FCT out there... right? It's whether they're doing something at the places where they're active.

If Serco has recongnized PATCO in one location, why are they not bound in all locations? How are they able to organize on a tower by tower basis? It seems to me that 30% of all Serco controllers would need to support this unionization not just individual towers. I'm not an expert on labor relations, obviously, but that's my understanding of the requirements for a union to be recognized by an employer.
Apparently, that's not the case here. I'd put it up in Ask PATCO if you're curious... or maybe I will, because I am. I thought it needed to be company-wide too, but perhaps FCTs are treated as separate entities. I know that Georgetown's is an FCT, but is run by the city government... so there you go. In any case, it's a legal union.
 

Patrick_Bateman

Junior Member
Jun 16, 2010
102
0
16
Manhattan
If you don't like what serco is doing don't work for them that simple!

Apparently you didn't read anything in this thread. Why does that not surprise me. Quitting isn't an option for everyone but they are losing people steadily. All part of their greater plan to have less manning and keep the controller roster ever changing. After all, new controllers won't realize all the benefits they never had to begin with.
 

Rosstafari

Daaaang.
Aug 17, 2008
1,149
22
38
41
/X
Apparently you didn't read anything in this thread.
I feel like we just got through pointing out the foolishness of the "if you don't like it, quit" argument... sigh.

After all, new controllers won't realize all the benefits they never had to begin with.
Sounds similar to work rules that were being imposed up until recently by another major employer of air traffic controllers, one that led to lows in morale that haven't been seen since, oh, about 1981. What was their name again? Federal... something... Federal Aviation Association, something like that.
 

Delta5

Rookie
May 3, 2010
61
0
6
The simple solution to all of this nonsense, requires the Serco controllers to take their heads out of the sand and stand up for what is right.

I have never, in my entire life, seen a work force so full of wimps! Serco knows it, and they help foster it. They dangle the carrot and the lemmings follow them to the cliffs.

I wish I knew what it would take to get these wussies mad enough to put their foot down and tell this overseas company to shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

I guess when Serco starts taking away the rest of the controllers benefits, maybe some of these people, who are currently sitting back and watching, will wake up to reality. Until that happens, the seven towers that have joined ranks, will have to fight the good fight, alone.
As a former Patco member from 1981 who lost his job because of Patco.
What would you have me do lose my job twice? I already lost a good job once due to Patco. I'm a wussie because I'm not stupid enough to repeat the same mistake?? If you've been there before than your a fool. If not than shut up and learn the lessons of the past!
 

patco

PATCO President
Jun 15, 2008
109
0
16
Florida
www.patco81.com
Fact:
8/3/81
The decision to strike in 81 was made by the membership. A vote was called and more than 80% gave the Union the right to call the action if needed. Without that vote, there would have been no strike. No member was forced to strike, and there was no guarantee made to the rank and file that the action would be successful. All the rumors in the world on what happened that day cannot erase how it actually started.

Fact:
11/18/10
PATCO has not and is not seeking a job action against SERCO. The Union is in contract negotiations with the Employer, to protect, defend, and enhance the controller’s rights, benefits and profession. PATCO currently represents seven (7) SERCO towers and if other towers are interested, they have the freedom of choice.


Ron Taylor
President
PATCO
PATCO:::professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization
 

RdRunnr12

Epic Member
May 10, 2009
1,569
9
38
Why would PATCO hold a vote on whether they should call for an illegal action? That seems like a pretty irresponsible decision.
 

Rosstafari

Daaaang.
Aug 17, 2008
1,149
22
38
41
/X
Why would PATCO hold a vote on whether they should call for an illegal action? That seems like a pretty irresponsible decision.
Hindsight's 20/20. It wasn't quite as cut and dry as that, and what went down had a lot to do with Reagan's politics, not just air traffic safety or the murky nature of unionized government employees. Ended up being one of the biggest things to happen to organized labor at the time. It's actually pretty interesting reading... there's a quote by Greenspan I stumbled across taken from remarks he made at the RR Library back in 2003:

Perhaps the most important, and then highly controversial, domestic initiative was the firing of the air traffic controllers in August 1981. The President invoked the law that striking government employees forfeit their jobs, an action that unsettled those who cynically believed no President would ever uphold that law. President Reagan prevailed, as you know, but far more importantly his action gave weight to the legal right of private employers, previously not fully exercised, to use their own discretion to both hire and discharge workers.
Incidentally, many watershed human rights protests originated as illegal action. Don't be too quick to dismiss it as a bunch of people who decided to thumb their noses at the lawbooks.
 

upurs81

Rookie
Apr 27, 2010
50
0
6
Delta5

You lost your job in 1981 because you went out on strike against the government. Did anyone tell you that was a possibility, or did you have your head up your ass, as is now?

I went out in 1981 knowing full well the risk involved. Any idiot could have figured out the possible consequences at that time. However, there were many fools like yourself, who thought nothing could possibly happen to them because either the union rep or their buddies told them so.

As you have been told, time and time again on this forum, this is not the Patco of 1981. But even if it were, it would make no difference, since the real problem here is uniting the controllers of Serco.

To your idiot side kick who thinks the solution is not to work for Serco, sorry moron, there are not alot of options out there if you want to work in the ATC field. You must be one of those f#*king fools who always tell me I am lucky I have a job????
 

upurs81

Rookie
Apr 27, 2010
50
0
6
Oh, I forgot....

tiredofwaiting,

"If you don't like what serco is doing don't work for them that simple!"

You must be the idiot that I always meet at some party, or wherever, who has the answer for everything? Are you the same moron who believes that I am lucky I have a job?

You might want to get together with Delta 5 and compare notes.

Why are you tired of waiting anyway? Waiting for what? My job? Don't count of it. However, if you are really tired of waiting, there are several current openings in Serco management. Let me know if I can help out.
Serco tells me they want to pay me some big bucks for headhunting. This could work out great. I can help add another jerk to their ranks, and pay for some of my lost benefits at the same time.
 

Delta5

Rookie
May 3, 2010
61
0
6
Delta5

You lost your job in 1981 because you went out on strike against the government. Did anyone tell you that was a possibility, or did you have your head up your ass, as is now?

I went out in 1981 knowing full well the risk involved. Any idiot could have figured out the possible consequences at that time. However, there were many fools like yourself, who thought nothing could possibly happen to them because either the union rep or their buddies told them so.

As you have been told, time and time again on this forum, this is not the Patco of 1981. But even if it were, it would make no difference, since the real problem here is uniting the controllers of Serco.

To your idiot side kick who thinks the solution is not to work for Serco, sorry moron, there are not alot of options out there if you want to work in the ATC field. You must be one of those f#*king fools who always tell me I am lucky I have a job????

Yeah I was young and believed the Union Hype. I'm now older and refuse to follow my past mistakes. You say it's not the Patco of 1981. It's run by the same people from 1981 though. Your president was voted life control of Patco from former 1981 Patco fired controllers. Finally I'm one of those fools that think you and I are both lucky to have a job in ATC after 1981.
I think that you believe your entitled and the world owes you. As long as you believe that you'll never be happy.
 

Rosstafari

Daaaang.
Aug 17, 2008
1,149
22
38
41
/X
It's run by the same people from 1981 though.
Original PATCO co-founder Jack Maher transferred control over to Ron Taylor in 1996 (and actual ownership in 2004). Maher was a facility rep for MIA back in '81, so unless you'd consider that representative of the same people, it's a whole new crew. Since Ron's name is down as President, CEO and Union Business Agent, I think it's a pretty safe bet to say he's behind the wheel... not Gary Eads.

Not to mention that part of the old leadership has either died or retired in the past thirty years. Including Maher, who passed away in 2008.
 

upurs81

Rookie
Apr 27, 2010
50
0
6
From Delta5,

"Finally I'm one of those fools that think you and I are both lucky to have a job in ATC after 1981.
I think that you believe your entitled and the world owes you. As long as you believe that you'll never be happy."

Sorry to upset your apple cart Delta5, but if I were not so damn lazy nowadays, I would be out doing what I did before working for Serco, making money.

And no, I don't think we are lucky to have a job in ATC. It is either hire the people with experience, or pretend to train the people that have none.

The longer you continue to believe you are lucky to have a job in ATC, the longer you will remain a door mat for your employer.
 

Delta5

Rookie
May 3, 2010
61
0
6
From Delta5,

"Finally I'm one of those fools that think you and I are both lucky to have a job in ATC after 1981.
I think that you believe your entitled and the world owes you. As long as you believe that you'll never be happy."

Sorry to upset your apple cart Delta5, but if I were not so damn lazy nowadays, I would be out doing what I did before working for Serco, making money.

And no, I don't think we are lucky to have a job in ATC. It is either hire the people with experience, or pretend to train the people that have none.

The longer you continue to believe you are lucky to have a job in ATC, the longer you will remain a door mat for your employer.
UPURS81, Thank you! Your response and past insults to others prove my point. You admit your lazy and feel your entitled.
 

DCATC

Rookie
Nov 2, 2009
49
0
6
I know that I felt very lucky to be working as a controller. I enjoyed the job so much that I wondered why they paid me!

There were trying times too. One of those times was brought about by the first journeyman I was "tied to" for my first D-Side. He spent all his time trying to wash me out, and he was insulted afterwards when I told him that I made it in spite of him. He washed-out others, and he would smugly say it was his job to wash those out that didn't belong. What a jerk! I always felt this guy did the FAA a great disservice, and there was nothing that could be done about it. But the CBA was there! And it certainly helped me.

In any case, I can understand why folks feel lucky to have a job, but even if the economy was in better shape, becoming an ATC employee within FCT is no simple achievment! It's a real paradox of challenges and process to get the job, and then no structure at all in expectations, training, benefits, whatever...

The Collective Bargain Agreement brings such structure to the job, allowing you to continue feeling lucky about having your ATC position without the apprehension you now feel about losing it! You will find that the standardized procedures and benefits will relieve worisome stresses (that I'm sure many of you experience) especially during illness or unexpected friction with management. Unfortunately, SERCO-NA will end your job for the purpose of excessive profit. Your protection is the purpose of the CBA.

Put experience on your side. Take part in your career! Request PATCO at your facility. Our goal is "Protecting the Rights of Air Traffic Controllers" - Ron Taylor, PATCO President. Ron's determined ambition to help you is a genuine quality that you'll find overwhelming when you see him in action. He works for you, even now, and it's likely that you're not even a member. Yet!



So your saying the only reaosn you didn't wash out was because of the CBA? yeah I really want someone who couldn't really make it controlling my skies. If you made it without it, awesome, but why should the CBA protect you from not actually being able to be qualified for the job?
 

MikeKilo

Rookie
Oct 29, 2009
25
0
1
Damn, did I really just read all 9 pages of this thread? I want to start off by saying, Patrick Bateman you are one pissed off dood! hahahaha I want to hear what you have to say about other Contract Tower Companies because I strongly feel that Serco is one of the better Contract companies out there! Serco medical coverage, yes it does sound pretty darn expensive for their plan if you were to pay for the full premium solo but they match pay with how many hours you work and in the wash out you pay 170 to 180 a month for their 2nd highest coverage(i'm single) and I have used it to get surgery done, saved me thousands of dollars and definitely paid for itself.

Hi, I'm Mike Kilo and i'm a victim. I was one of those people that got laid off from Serco when they rebid for the facility. In fact, technically, I got less than 2 weeks notice before I was let go. Just to give some insight, when a facility is up for rebid, multiple contract companies are throwing out their bids on how little money they can run the facility for.* Other companies were bidding lower than what Serco had Originally offered. So Serco, not wanting to lose the rights to that facility bid lower in order to retain the facility. The repercussion of this meant that Serco needed to somehow gain that money back which became cutting 1 man power. Now, is this wrong of Serco? Frankly, I didn't care because I felt that if another contract company would have taken over, they would have done the EXACT same thing to save money and keep the profits there. It's a business no matter how you look at it. If there was no money to be made, they wouldn't bother. Just like we wouldn't bother with something if it wasn't worth our efforts. But, Serco did offer me priority in any other facility that they had open because of what had happened. Shitty? Perhaps....but its business and I can accept that.

* Ultimately why are FCT around? So that Air Traffic Control can be performed at a lower cost than what the FAA do. So, isn't the real Blame with the FAA? They are the one who are trying to cut down cost and save money. They are the ones making a FAA facility "down grade" into a FCT so that "They", the FAA, can save money. FAA is the one determining how much money they will pay a Contract Company to run a facility. From there the Contract company determines how much they can pay their employees.

Serco Sick leave policy that comes out of our 401k. Okay this is how this stuff works. To begin with, Serco matches 50% of up to 6%(max) of your contributions to your 401k. So assuming you are putting in the max, serco is matching 3% of your contributions to your 401k. Every Pay period, a certain amount of that money is taken and put a 'sick leave' fund that you have. If you remain healthy as an ox and never get sick, that money is put back into your 401k and you never lost any money. If you do get sick, then you basically pay yourself out of your 'sick leave fund' that had accrued over time for you in ratio of hours to work. BUT, when you really think about it...the money is paid by the FREE money you received from SERCO where they matched that 3% of what you are paying into your 401k.
Reason for this??? Most people were abusing the prior Free 1 week Sick Leave as personal leave esp towards the end of the year. Funny how that worked out, right? "I won't take any sick days off because I don't know if and when I am going to get sick during the year." Then as the year comes to the end everyone was jumping on their sick leave since it's use or lose and using it as vacation. I'm willing to believe that Serco saw a drastic reduction in people getting "sick" with their new policy thus weeding out the abusers of the system. If you're truly sick take the couple days loss on your Free 401k money and get better. Your actual pay check isn't hindered and I doubt the final wash of your 401k will be drastically changed over time. Pretty darn smart business wise and sucks to be the system abuser......

The whole minimum manning and working 3 to 5 hours in position with out a break or bathroom. Man I have an over active bladder hahaha I have to pee atleast once every hour, might have to do with me drinking a lot of water all day everyday. But all it takes is a simple call to ask for a quick bathroom relief. Honestly I'd rather work in position for 3 hours than rotate or change every 1 hour or less, Damn thats annoying. Maybe it has to do with work ethics? But I enjoy controlling. When I go into work, I want to be working...not sitting around, not working any traffic and expecting a break every hour and a half. Take me back to working at a retail shop at the ever so popular Staples, That was easy, office supply store when I was younger. They are a Union ran chain and I had to pay Union dues. Back then in an 8 hour day we got 2, 20min breaks and 1, 30 or 45 min lunch break. I don't know what the laws are now, but those getting a break every 1.5 to 2 hours, face it...you're spoiled!

I almost took the Serco Hawaii job. When they opened up 2 slots I called the facility and asked why they were being opened. 1 Guy he was moving for his family, he had spent a lot of time there but it was time to move on. The other guy got into the FAA. Kona hawaii FCT is also at 40% Cola, holy crap that's nice! When we did the math...if you factor in holiday, maybe ot, night differential pay and sunday pay the potential was there to make $80k a year. Now do they actually hit those numbers I don't know...But i'm pretty sure they hit $70k. I also looked at the housing cost out there. They had pretty pimp apartment that was beach front for 1200/month or less. Honestly how can you complain that Serco is ripping people off at the Hawaii location? Only reason why I didn't take it is because I would go crazy being stuck on a little island. But it was real tempting! Now bethel in alaska is another story HAHAAHA They couldn't pay me enough to go to alaska. I was stationed out of eielson afb alaska...man what a miserably cold place that was.

Let's face it, Military treats you the WORST when it comes to what you are "deserved" and your "rights." So all this Serco is not fair unjustice talk seems like no big deal to me I guess. I've been treated less like a human being with my time in service and Iraq than any civilian sector has ever.

I've backpacked throughout third world countries and I've noticed that some of the poorest people with nothing were also the happiest. It is sad to say but for most people in America, at one point, you have to have nothing in life to appreciate everything you have. I think this is because there are too many Americans that feel they are Entitled to something when they aren't, Be humbled my friends.....

Lastly, If you don't like Serco...then Quit! HAHAHAHAHA
 

upurs81

Rookie
Apr 27, 2010
50
0
6
MikeKilo,

Just how long were you with Serco before they sent you on your way?

Two weeks is my guess.

You may want to take another look at your interesting twist on how Serco does business. I really don't think you were around long enough to get your story straight. Or, at least not long enough to understand how things operate within the company.

Anywho...if you are who you say you are, my sympathy goes out to you for being one of the employees who got the boot.

I hate to pop your bubble, but Serco knew exactly what they were going to do before you were hired. You were simply a pawn. Hopefully, they will honor their priority hiring, and you will get another slot somewhere. Unfortunately, Serco has a track record of not honoring their promises.

If and when you get back on, please try not to be another doormat for this company. We already have too many employees who are afraid to stand up for what is right.