Pool 1 CTI No TOL

Feb 24, 2017
67
0
6
I wish they could just change our status on USAJOBS or something to let those of us know who aren't advancing that it's over because the fat lady sung her tune already. This is agony.
 

YouAppearToBeOnFire

Junior Member
Feb 3, 2017
104
1
18
Trust me 32, I know. I was told to expect a TOL on the first wave and to follow up if I didn't. Which caught me as strange but I rolled with it.

I dislike the system but at this point I just want to understand their logic if I don't get one.

Which sadly understanding the FAA is like having the answers to the universe.
 

32andBelow

Senior Analyst
Jan 20, 2011
1,024
10
38
Trust me 32, I know. I was told to expect a TOL on the first wave and to follow up if I didn't. Which caught me as strange but I rolled with it.

I dislike the system but at this point I just want to understand their logic if I don't get one.

Which sadly understanding the FAA is like having the answers to the universe.
At one point they were contractors, not sure if that changed
 

kjem

Rookie
May 13, 2011
42
0
6
Florida
you have to admit though, it is a little discouraging that they put this requirement on atc jobs that you have to go to a cti school only to remove it later.
Having a CTI degree was never a requirement. It just increased your likelihood of getting hired by giving preference to those with CTI Degrees.

May I know why FAA included OTS people? The only reasoning I know is to add diversity which can be done with ATC too.
OTS people are included because it is a gov't job and, like all gov't jobs, is open to the public. Even now, it is not a requirement to have a college degree to become an ATC. The minimum is a high school diploma or the equivalent and it has always been that way.
 

SayAgain3

Trusted Member
Feb 13, 2017
359
4
18
Having a CTI degree was never a requirement. It just increased your likelihood of getting hired by giving preference to those with CTI Degrees.



OTS people are included because it is a gov't job and, like all gov't jobs, is open to the public. Even now, it is not a requirement to have a college degree to become an ATC. The minimum is a high school diploma or the equivalent and it has always been that way.
After the last open source announcement (forget the exact date, late 2008, early 2009), from 2009 to 2014 (when they changed to the BQ), the only way into air traffic control was through the military or CTI, they did not hire off the street.
 

kjem

Rookie
May 13, 2011
42
0
6
Florida
After the last open source announcement (forget the exact date, late 2008, early 2009), from 2009 to 2014 (when they changed to the BQ), the only way into air traffic control was through the military or CTI, they did not hire off the street.
You are correct in the sense that only CTI people were getting in and that was the problem. ATC has never required a college degree only a high school diploma or the equivalent. So why were there little to no people getting in w/o a CTI degree? The process was giving too much preferentially treatment to CTI students, thus locking out anyone who could't afford a college degree. That is the issue the BQ is trying to address. Also the BQ was implemented sometime after 2011.

Think about it. You do not need ATC experience to do this job (Don't get me wrong, it definitely is a huge plus.). That's why there is the basic training. Yours, mine's and everyone else's CTI degree simply covers exactly what will be covered in Basics. And if you went to a fancy CTI school you may have even worked similar sims, Academy Airport, Aero Center and whatever the TRACON was called, which was just something extra because CTI people can skip basics, but not the sims.
 

32andBelow

Senior Analyst
Jan 20, 2011
1,024
10
38
After the last open source announcement (forget the exact date, late 2008, early 2009), from 2009 to 2014 (when they changed to the BQ), the only way into air traffic control was through the military or CTI, they did not hire off the street.
Also the 2013-14 panel was cancelled due to budget freeze
 

smh249

Junior Member
Oct 19, 2013
100
0
16
When did you call HR last whem they stated they aren't done giving out tols? I'm almost ready to give up on my hopes of getting one.
 

cgaub

Senior Member
Jan 23, 2017
234
0
16
Indiana
I know I heard that people called Friday and got that answer which was proven today when a good little wave went out, past that though I havent seen anything

When did you call HR last whem they stated they aren't done giving out tols? I'm almost ready to give up on my hopes of getting one.
 

SayAgain3

Trusted Member
Feb 13, 2017
359
4
18
You are correct in the sense that only CTI people were getting in and that was the problem. ATC has never required a college degree only a high school diploma or the equivalent. So why were there little to no people getting in w/o a CTI degree? The process was giving too much preferentially treatment to CTI students, thus locking out anyone who could't afford a college degree. That is the issue the BQ is trying to address. Also the BQ was implemented sometime after 2011.

Think about it. You do not need ATC experience to do this job (Don't get me wrong, it definitely is a huge plus.). That's why there is the basic training. Yours, mine's and everyone else's CTI degree simply covers exactly what will be covered in Basics. And if you went to a fancy CTI school you may have even worked similar sims, Academy Airport, Aero Center and whatever the TRACON was called, which was just something extra because CTI people can skip basics, but not the sims.
 

Attachments

FoxtrotEcho

Rookie
Dec 14, 2016
51
1
8
[QUOTE=kje

First of all "Kjem"do you even know what you are talking about?? the reason "little to know people were getting in with out a CTI" as you put it was because a cti degree was required if you were not military. In other words previously there were only two avenues for entry CTI or military.

Secondly, I'm not quite sure how this was a problem? Every other professional job requires prerequisite's. Do you really think Doctors are ready to practice medicine right out of med school? Or do they probably learn most of their practical skills in internships, residencies, fellowships etc. maybe we should just let docs skip med school to be fair to the underprivileged who can't afford it, because they could probably just learn all they need through the mandatory on the job training anyways. Hospitals and clinics should just open physician trainee programs to everyone just to be fair. They would probably have to hire hundreds of people at a time just to keep a handful considering no one has any medical knowledge or vetting from the schools. Sound familiar?

Lastly, not all government jobs are open to the public. Go on USA jobs and tell how many you are qualified for and/ or have met the prerequisites.

Honestly can't believe you thought you could come on this thread and try to pull this. Have some respect pal.
 

kjem

Rookie
May 13, 2011
42
0
6
Florida
kje First of all "Kjem"do you even know what you are talking about?? the reason "little to know people were getting in with out a CTI" as you put it was because a cti degree was required if you were not military. In other words previously there were only two avenues for entry CTI or military. Secondly said:
I know exactly what I am talking about. You guys are completely wrong. And obviously, every job has requirements. So I guess I should have said open to the public w/ qualified skills or whatever. However, again, CTI and military never was a requirement to do ATC. And your example is highly simplified (and so was my whole skip basics thing that I said; however, I was trying to reiterate the point that CTI degrees really do not teach you anything special.). To become a doctor it is required to do all those things; however, in this case, it was never a requirement to go to the military or CTI school. They were just given preferential treatment. The only prerequisite was to have some years of full-time work which didn't have to aviation or ATC specific.

I can't believe you could come on this thread with all that entitled nonsense.
 

Truth

Senior Member
Jun 22, 2011
176
0
16
This guy must be referring to a CTI grad... I'm not even gonna go back and read what lead up to this comment.

Life advice though, lose you're arrogance and entitlement no matter how good you think you are, people will purposely try to hold you back to prove a point. I've learned this the hard way.
 

YouAppearToBeOnFire

Junior Member
Feb 3, 2017
104
1
18
Kjem. Although maybe not a *requirement* in order to get ATC. The avenues they switched to were CTI and military. Which makes it a requirement. Then about 6 years into the deal they decided they wanted OTS too.

The reason CTI kids are made isn't because someone else got picked. It's because instead of at least giving preference.

Example: I'm CTI. You worked at McDonald's for three years. I get the first nod.

They simply broke it down to where there is no preference.

This is my third application since the change and I'm still in referral. However, I have a lot more than just CTI. So based on pass/fail the system is still screwed up.

Imagine paying for a degree that's extremely specific because of how the hiring process is then right before you graduate it's virtually useless.

Now yes there are options to continue education. However, I know a lot of people who got student loans for this. Me being one. It's kind of a shame to be paying $600 a month to my loans only to be told McDonald's burger flipper can beat me out.

Chalk it up as a poor life choice I guess but those that picked this degree didn't do it for the money. Not solely at least. Many OTS are.

Either way it's completely FUBAR.
 

boots

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2017
261
3
18
FoxtrotEcho & SayAgain hit it on the nose.

All I have to say is the failure rate at OKC and Centers has dramatically increased since they started OTS hiring. I'm not saying it to throw shade, but that's a fact.
what numbers do you have to support that?
 

SayAgain3

Trusted Member
Feb 13, 2017
359
4
18
I know exactly what I am talking about. You guys are completely wrong. And obviously, every job has requirements. So I guess I should have said open to the public w/ qualified skills or whatever. However, again, CTI and military never was a requirement to do ATC.
Seeing as you are a CTI grad, I find it almost impossible that you have no idea how the hiring process worked prior to the BQ or even had no idea when the BQ actually started.
 

DL0509

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
153
0
16
FoxtrotEcho & SayAgain hit it on the nose.

All I have to say is the failure rate at OKC and Centers has dramatically increased since they started OTS hiring. I'm not saying it to throw shade, but that's a fact.
I was hired of the 2015 OTS bid and the majority of students at the Academy were CTI grads so why are you guys complaining.

The failure rates went up at the Academy not because of OTS students, they went up because the FAA changed how the PAs were done.
CTI students need to come down of your high horse and realize that at the facilities nobody cares what school you went to or didnt go to. Its whether or not you can do the job, and no just because you went to school for ATC doesnt mean you can do the job.
 

cgaub

Senior Member
Jan 23, 2017
234
0
16
Indiana
I wonder if its OTS though or "Millennials" I am in the age range that gets sh!t on for being a millennial and while I feel like I don't fit most of the things that come with the label, A TON of people I know and went to school with. So yes failure numbers may be up recently and part of it could be bc a bunch of OTS (also me) people have no idea what they are doing and can't figure it out, but it could also be partially bc a bunch of over-confident, stuck up, young people who want a 6 figure paycheck just handed to them and rather than work for it just complain or try to fight their poor scores are now entering the system and the system doesn't cater to them so they fail rather than be pushed through like they have for most other things in their lives... Heck even some of the millennial CTIers on here that think bc they have a degree they can just show up and not have to study or work hard bc they already know everything could have the same issue. No that last sentence was not an attack on CTIers, just "too good" cocky young people in general

TLDR; maybe millennials are causing the higher fail rates more than it being all OTS's fault...

FoxtrotEcho & SayAgain hit it on the nose.

All I have to say is the failure rate at OKC and Centers has dramatically increased since they started OTS hiring. I'm not saying it to throw shade, but that's a fact.
 

Brave29

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2017
162
0
16
That’s the biggest lie they sell. You should watch the report Fox business did. Other reports indicate the FAA has covered up information that discloses the higher failure rate of OTS candidates.
Fox/Republicans = Alternative facts

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