Promotion-Release Date

duranme

Senior Analyst
Nov 3, 2009
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Everyone gets checked out in 6 month or less in STT! So where is the "reasonable effort", from management? I just want things done right. The day I get released I receive a $23,000 pay increase, that is huge. Im sure anyone would cry about that kind of money.
They are doing things right... they have numbers to project for and facility to staff. Why have people forgotten how the operation comes first.
 

jdatc624

Senior Member
Dec 30, 2010
161
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Center/center/tracon
www.youtube.com
Everyone gets checked out in 6 month or less in STT! So where is the "reasonable effort", from management? I just want things done right. The day I get released I receive a $23,000 pay increase, that is huge. Im sure anyone would cry about that kind of money.
Remind us all again how long you have been at STT so we can feel some pity. You've been there what, not even a year and a half?
 

RomeoNovember

Senior Analyst
Sep 26, 2009
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They are doing things right... they have numbers to project for and facility to staff. Why have people forgotten how the operation comes first.
They are not because we had 9 CPC in February, we knew we was getting 2 from an ERR back in September 2014, which both of them got checked out in 7 days. So ATO was giving us 11 CPC for total staffing. Right before those 2 ERR got checked out, we lost 2 people, one medical, and the other quit. Since February-March, we still don't have anyone to replace our 2 unforeseen losses and we now have 3 people trying to get release dates.
 

KSDL

Rookie
Mar 23, 2015
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They are not because we had 9 CPC in February, we knew we was getting 2 from an ERR back in September 2014, which both of them got checked out in 7 days. So ATO was giving us 11 CPC for total staffing. Right before those 2 ERR got checked out, we lost 2 people, one medical, and the other quit. Since February-March, we still don't have anyone to replace our 2 unforeseen losses and we now have 3 people trying to get release dates.

STT Staffing Range is between 7-9. You have 9 on board.
 

Purplelobj

Epic Member
Jan 29, 2014
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It sounds to me like those three people have to wait, just like every other facility in the country.
 

RomeoNovember

Senior Analyst
Sep 26, 2009
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Having a debate on what's right or wrong is not complaining! The red book and NATCA are here to protect our rights. I've seen in my short tenure, management not follow the rules and need to be corrected on many occasions. I'm not an expert on the way things are done within the FAA, nor am I on our rights in the red book. When 23k is on the line, I definitely want to make sure everyone is following the rules. I know one thing for sure, management is never going to stand up when they make mistakes.

Does anyone know where I can find the official staffing numbers for each facility?
 
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unable

Trusted Member
Jan 31, 2013
399
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Over the Rainbow
They were giving us 11, before knowing we lost the 2 unforeseen.
But letting you sit with 9 isn't exactly wrong. STT is staffed. Yes, it would help you personally if they added two more bodies.. but guess what? There are facilities that are understaffed and working 6 day work weeks. Your situation is not uncommon. I would like 4 or 5 new bodies at my facility to move up my release date. I also realize that the FAA needs come before mine.
 

RomeoNovember

Senior Analyst
Sep 26, 2009
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But letting you sit with 9 isn't exactly wrong. STT is staffed. Yes, it would help you personally if they added two more bodies.. but guess what? There are facilities that are understaffed and working 6 day work weeks. Your situation is not uncommon. I would like 4 or 5 new bodies at my facility to move up my release date. I also realize that the FAA needs come before mine.
That is my entire point! ZAB is on 6 day weeks and STT is well staffed. From the eyes of the FAA it would benefit them more to release me now than later because it cost STT more money to keep me than to pay OT if need. STT is a county club, we don't need 9 CPC!
 
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unable

Trusted Member
Jan 31, 2013
399
36
28
Over the Rainbow
That is my entire point! ZAB is on 6 day weeks and STT is well staffed. From the eyes of the FAA it would benefit them more to release me now than later because it cost STT more money to keep me than to pay OT if need. STT is a county club, we don't need 9 CPC!

Thats your opinion. Are there others released before you? If so, then you wait. Do you have controllers projected to retire? If not then, less help is on the way so you wait. Does management project new folks in the door? If not then you wait until new help arrives. Your manager has an obligation to protect his facility... bottom line. You are a certified controller at your facility. You are essential to your facility only.

Finally, were you picked up on a bid or an ERR.
If it's a bid, your management has to let you go within a specific amount of time. If it's beyond 180 day, he needs the District manager to justify it.
If it's a ERR... so sorry for you.
 

RomeoNovember

Senior Analyst
Sep 26, 2009
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Thats your opinion. Are there others released before you? If so, then you wait. Do you have controllers projected to retire? If not then, less help is on the way so you wait. Does management project new folks in the door? If not then you wait until new help arrives. Your manager has an obligation to protect his facility... bottom line. You are a certified controller at your facility. You are essential to your facility only.

Finally, were you picked up on a bid or an ERR.
If it's a bid, your management has to let you go within a specific amount of time. If it's beyond 180 day, he needs the District manager to justify it.
If it's a ERR... so sorry for you.
I got picked up on a bid. Im still waiting on the 180 day waiver from the DM and HR. I'm just trying to understand my managers justification for keeping me here 14 months, 23k is a lot of money to me. Like I said, we don't need people, with 9 CPC we are lucky to work 3 hours on position each day. Our min staffing is 4 CPC for the entire day. Hopefully the DM gets me released sooner!
 

TimShady

Senior Analyst
Mar 12, 2009
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This blows! I want my money,lol! If they hold you over 6 months they should start our CPC-IT after that.
You sound like a child. Don't forget you actually have to check out in order to keep that pay increase you keep whining about.

Are there other people at your facility released ahead of you? If you are third in line or so then 14 months sounds legit. If you are first to go then that seems a little long, but either way it takes very little effort for your manager to hold you past the 180 days. That's barely even a thing from what I've seen.
 

RomeoNovember

Senior Analyst
Sep 26, 2009
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I was being childish, that's why I lol! No need to stat the obvious. I did plan on checking out, if I don't NEST is always an option. We all have TOL, nothing firm. Are release dates given first come first serve? Do bids have priority over ERR? Do you know the propose of the 180 day waiver management needs to sign?

The entire point of this thread is to determine our release rights vs management. I'm whining to get people in the discussion. I'm gratful I have a release date, however if I can push management to let me leave sooner, it would be nice.
 
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lowapproach

Epic Member
Oct 29, 2010
1,316
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Your release rights depend almost entirely on the opinion of management. If you doubt me, read Article 42 of the contract and ask your rep to explain it to you.

All three of you are similarly situated - TOLs in hand, nothing beyond that. Before you lost two people unexpectedly, he could have taken those departures and still remained within his staffing range. But now he has three employees he has to treat fairly and equitably, and if he lets all three go before he gets a new CPC to replace at least one of them, he will operate at least one below his staffing range. His district manager will be upset with him if he starts spending more OT or fielding more TOP grievances, after he said that the three of you could go without unduly impacting STT. ZAB's issues are ZAB's. His performance review is about what happens at STT.

Also, we're about to reenter sequestration in October. Maybe STT can count on Academy graduates sometime soon, or maybe all it gets are people from NEST. Sequestration slowed down hiring two years ago, and it could do so again. Either way, why should your manager rush your exit until he knows what he's working with in six months?

If you grieve it and take it through all its steps, you will necessarily have to decline your release date first. If you lose, your best-case scenario is that you keep your current release date. You might find yourself wishing 24 months from now that you had locked in a 14-month release.
 

Purplelobj

Epic Member
Jan 29, 2014
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Doesn't sequestration freeze release anyway? As in we don't card that your release is tomorrow, you aren't going.
 

Stinger

Epic Member
May 24, 2009
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I was being childish, that's why I lol! No need to stat the obvious. I did plan on checking out, if I don't NEST is always an option. We all have TOL, nothing firm. Are release dates given first come first serve? Do bids have priority over ERR? Do you know the propose of the 180 day waiver management needs to sign?

The entire point of this thread is to determine our release rights vs management. I'm whining to get people in the discussion. I'm gratful I have a release date, however if I can push management to let me leave sooner, it would be nice.
No, release dates aren't always first come, first served. I had a coworker get a release date. Then three weeks after he got his date, I got my release date scheduled for two months ahead of him.