Question About Taxi After Landing

RomeoPapa

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Jun 16, 2015
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What do controllers expect from pilots after landing? If I am not switched over to ground in time--or if the ground controller is busy--do controllers expect us to taxi to the ramp at our discretion, or hold clear of the runway? In this example, we are talking about a busy class B during a peak in the arrivals.
 

FL_CTI

Trusted Member
Oct 8, 2009
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You are NEVER expected to taxi anywhere on your own. You as a pilot have no idea what we are seeing in the tower. We expect you to turn off the runway as soon as you are able and switch over to ground. Most times, we tell you to contact ground, but if we are busy, you can switch on your own and ground will let local know they are talking to you. But to answer your question, you never taxi along a movement area on your own. You are expected to be listening on GC frequency, and wait for either a break in the speech or for the GC to reach out to you.
 

Stinger

Epic Member
May 24, 2009
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Basically yes. Except I've heard that you should never stop at a busy Class B airport like ORD. You exit and just get in line and keep moving with everyone else.
 

kaeXo

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2016
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Basically yes. Except I've heard that you should never stop at a busy Class B airport like ORD. You exit and just get in line and keep moving with everyone else.
To basically get in line and follow the crowd is leading to nothing but a pilot deviation especially at a busy airport like ORD. Never just taxi and follow the crowd ever! The local controller will give instructions or have him contact ground.

The pilot would never get in trouble for exiting the runway, getting clear, and stopping for further instructions. Which is my advice; if the local controller is busy exit the runway as soon as practical and wait for further instructions. If you taxi on your own I gurantee you will be deviated for it.
 

Stinger

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May 24, 2009
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If you taxi on your own I gurantee you will be deviated for it.
Flat out wrong.

But I agree that you should wait for taxi instructions until you understand how that airport works. The golden rule at ORD is do not stop moving.
 

kaeXo

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2016
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Flat out wrong.

But I agree that you should wait for taxi instructions until you understand how that airport works. The golden rule at ORD is do not stop moving.
I don't care what the golden rule is. The pilot could not ever get in trouble for waiting for taxi instructions after clearing the runway. There is no where in the .65 or JO 7210.632 it says a pilot can be deviated for remaining clear of the runway and waiting for instruction when no instruction is given. I don't care how busy the local or ground controller is; it is their job to control the aircraft on movement areas and if aircraft are just randomly moving on taxiways to "follow the herd" then you have lost positive control which is an operational error on the controller's part.

By this rule I could just follow the herd and taxi to the active for departure. Well the golden rule is to not stop moving. Literally makes zero sense and I HIGHLY doubt people are just randomly taxing to the ramp at ORD. I would hate to be the ground controller writing out a controller statement because a random aircraft was told to never stop moving and hit another aircraft while randomly taxing to the ramp on his own because I was to busy. I gurantee this isn't the case.

I also just checked notams at ORD. It doesn't say anywhere when you exit the runway don't stop moving even if no instruction is given. So how would a new person coming to ORD know this majestic golden rule? Literally the dumbest thing I have heard today.
 

kaeXo

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2016
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I wouldn't give taxi recommendations to anyone for an airport I don't work at.
Dude cmon you would actually tell a pilot to randomly taxi to the ramp of one of the busiest airports in the world without instructions to do so from either the LC/GC? Even you tracon cavemen would know better than that.

That is like someone decending/climbing or turning on his own because you were to busy at N90 to immediately get back to him. It would literally be a big deviation.
 

Stinger

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May 24, 2009
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Dude cmon you would actually tell a pilot to randomly taxi to the ramp of one of the busiest airports in the world without instructions to do so from either the LC/GC? Even you tracon cavemen would know better than that.

That is like someone decending/climbing or turning on his own because you were to busy at N90 to immediately get back to him. It would literally be a big deviation.
Dude, he agreed with you, dude chill out.
Saying a controller will try and deviate a pilot for taxiing to parking is a big reach.
 

kaeXo

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2016
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Dude, he agreed with you, dude chill out.
Saying a controller will try and deviate a pilot for taxiing to parking is a big reach.
Oh I know. I was just giving NE a hard time about being a tracon controller. Wasn't meaning anything by it.


But do you actually hear yourself right now? Yes without a doubt if I pilot taxes to parking without talking to the controllers would def. be deviated at a place like ORD. Especially at an airport where 100s of aircraft are moving around. The ligation if something happend would be insane. Let's hope the GC AT-SAP that if something actually did happen.
 

NovemberEcho

Epic Member
Dec 8, 2010
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Dude cmon you would actually tell a pilot to randomly taxi to the ramp of one of the busiest airports in the world without instructions to do so from either the LC/GC? Even you tracon cavemen would know better than that.

That is like someone decending/climbing or turning on his own because you were to busy at N90 to immediately get back to him. It would literally be a big deviation.
uh yeah I was saying I wouldn't give taxi advice (i.e.. Never stop moving at ORD) if I didn't work at that airport


edit: just saw your reply. Disregard
 

kaeXo

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2016
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uh yeah I was saying I wouldn't give taxi advice (i.e.. Never stop moving at ORD) if I didn't work at that airport


edit: just saw your reply. Disregard
No worries, it's hard to see emotion in text. But literally was laughing while reading that. I can't believe any controller would say that. That would be begging for something to happen especially at a place as complex as O'Hare. It's the same line as would you cross a runway because the GC told the aircraft in front of you too? I mean he was just following the guy right? If that's the case why even have a GC at airports I mean the pilots are smart enough to follow the leader and not hit each other, right? "rolling eyes"


Pilot : I need progressive even though there is only one taxiway you need to take to the active but yeah I would trust them enough to let them move freely at ORD.
 

Stinger

Epic Member
May 24, 2009
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Obviously you don't cross a runway without being told.
ORD is not like the other airports. Just don't make anyone wait for you and you can taxi to your heart's content around and around with the flow of everyone else if you truly feel like it.
 

kaeXo

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2016
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Obviously you don't cross a runway without being told.
ORD is not like the other airports. Just don't make anyone wait for you and you can taxi to your heart's content around and around with the flow of everyone else if you truly feel like it.
I GURANTEE that's not the case but I will drop it. That ground controller on liveatc sure is giving a lot of instructions for people to be taxing freely. ;)
 

Stinger

Epic Member
May 24, 2009
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I GURANTEE that's not the case but I will drop it. That ground controller on liveatc sure is giving a lot of instructions for people to be taxing freely. ;)
So you don't believe current controllers that work at ORD and have told me how it works there....but whatevs.
All I'm saying is that if you literally can't get a word in to get taxi instructions, just move with the flow of everyone else.
 

FM_Weasel

Senior Analyst
Dec 9, 2008
991
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The ORD information is oft repeated on aviation forums because pilots get bitched at for stopping when the frequency is too busy to get a word in edge-wise.

How often do you fly into ORD kaeXo? And what has been your experience thus far?

Anyway, the .65 NOTE says this:

NOTE−
1. An aircraft is expected to taxi clear of the runway unless
otherwise directed by ATC. Pilots must not exit the landing
runway on to an intersecting runway unless authorized by
ATC. In the absence of ATC instructions, an aircraft should
taxi clear of the landing runway by clearing the hold
position marking associated with the landing runway even
if that requires the aircraft to protrude into or enter another
taxiway/ramp area. This does not authorize an aircraft to
cross a subsequent taxiway or ramp after clearing the
landing runway.
And the AIM says this:

4−3−20. Exiting the Runway After Landing
The following procedures must be followed after
landing and reaching taxi speed.
a. Exit the runway without delay at the first
available taxiway or on a taxiway as instructed by
ATC. Pilots must not exit the landing runway onto
another runway unless authorized by ATC. At
airports with an operating control tower, pilots should
not stop or reverse course on the runway without first
obtaining ATC approval.
b. Taxi clear of the runway unless otherwise
directed by ATC. An aircraft is considered clear of the
runway when all parts of the aircraft are past the
runway edge and there are no restrictions to its
continued movement beyond the runway holding
position markings. In the absence of ATC instructions,
the pilot is expected to taxi clear of the landing
runway by taxiing beyond the runway holding
position markings associated with the landing
runway, even if that requires the aircraft to protrude
into or cross another taxiway or ramp area. Once all
parts of the aircraft have crossed the runway holding
position markings, the pilot must hold unless further
instructions have been issued by ATC.
NOTE−
1. The tower will issue the pilot instructions which will
permit the aircraft to enter another taxiway, runway, or
ramp area when required.
2. Guidance contained in subparagraphs a and b above is
considered an integral part of the landing clearance and
satisfies the requirement of 14 CFR Section 91.129.
c. Immediately change to ground control frequency
when advised by the tower and obtain a taxi
clearance.
NOTE−
1. The tower will issue instructions required to resolve any
potential conflictions with other ground traffic prior to
advising the pilot to contact ground control.
That's really all that needs to be said on this topic. If you get bitched at by ORD GC that's an entirely different can of worms and apparently people on the internet get super defensive about discussing it.
 
Last edited:

RomeoPapa

Newcomer
Jun 16, 2015
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The ORD information is oft repeated on aviation forums because pilots get bitched at for stopping when the frequency is too busy to get a word in edge-wise.

How often do you fly into ORD kaeXo? And what has been your experience thus far?

Anyway, the .65 NOTE says this:



And the AIM says this:



That's really all that needs to be said on this topic. If you get bitched at by ORD GC that's an entirely different can of worms and apparently people on the internet get super defensive about discussing it.
Thanks! Yeah at places like ORD and ATL, they get mad at you for stopping the flow. I was just wondering if it was like this at other fields
 

FM_Weasel

Senior Analyst
Dec 9, 2008
991
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It's not. Or, at least, it shouldn't be. It really shouldn't be that way at ORD or ATL either, but good luck changing that culture.
 

RobertB

Senior Analyst
Aug 18, 2008
868
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Thanks! Yeah at places like ORD and ATL, they get mad at you for stopping the flow. I was just wondering if it was like this at other fields
Of all the times I've sat on monitor (where we actually have the tower frequencies keyed up with override capabilities), I've NEVER heard a pilot get yelled at by Atlanta tower for "stopping the flow." I've heard them get short with pilots for not reading back hold short instructions or not replying in a timely manner. Aircraft don't just taxi around aimlessly at busy airports...