Sleeping Air Traffic Controllers

Re: "ANOTHER" Sleeping Controller ?!?!?!?

Maybe you can offer an old timer some insight. Way, way back (in the day, as they like to say) dozing off on a mid with no traffic was not unusual (yes, we worked mids alone in the tower before 1981). I would turn the speaker on highest volume. At the slightest noise if I did doze off, I was awake. What I don't understand is how someone can sleep through transmissions, phone calls, etc. I would believe the person were dead before I thought they fell asleep. Or were they just downstairs in the can? Maybe before hiring they should put the applicant through a sleep test. If they don't wake up at a certain noise level, then they can't be hired.
 

Ramstar13

Trusted Member
Dec 2, 2008
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Re: "ANOTHER" Sleeping Controller ?!?!?!?

im gonna side with "The Real Controllers" on this one, "The FAA Boots (Applicants, Wannabee's, lol) don't know about quick turns. I USED TO WORK 14 HORS DAYS IN USMC, thats including an 8 hour ATC shift, extra bullshit required, and then 3 hours of PT, EVERYDAY!!!! And STill, and is no where NEAR as bad as my QUICK TURNS in the FAA. Im working 30 times the level of traffic now then i did then, on top of training some new jack, its hard. WE did not have quick turns in the military, one week days, one week nights and i loved it.
 

alzy

Senior Analyst
Jan 21, 2010
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Re: "ANOTHER" Sleeping Controller ?!?!?!?

im gonna side with "The Real Controllers" on this one, "The FAA Boots (Applicants, Wannabee's, lol) don't know about quick turns. I USED TO WORK 14 HORS DAYS IN USMC, thats including an 8 hour ATC shift, extra bullshit required, and then 3 hours of PT, EVERYDAY!!!! And STill, and is no where NEAR as bad as my QUICK TURNS in the FAA. Im working 30 times the level of traffic now then i did then, on top of training some new jack, its hard. WE did not have quick turns in the military, one week days, one week nights and i loved it.
Listen, I am not saying that it's not hard. I am only saying that there are some people here who do it. I am not talking about working ATC in the military, that's not the same as doing a day long sweep through the city only to come back and sit post for 8 hours. Sure doing a quick turn in the FAA is hard, but there are other hard things too, and maybe some people on here can relate to the difficulties faced by those doing quick turns... just sayin'
 

Ramstar13

Trusted Member
Dec 2, 2008
373
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Mexico City
Re: "ANOTHER" Sleeping Controller ?!?!?!?

Dude did you not read my post? IM in the the FAA now, at a busy facility and deal with quick turns twice a week, swing to day, day to mid. It is an ass kicker, i'm really tired. I was saying it is way worse than the 14 hour days i had in the military
 

alzy

Senior Analyst
Jan 21, 2010
800
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Re: "ANOTHER" Sleeping Controller ?!?!?!?

Dd dd y nt rd my pst? M n th th F nw, t bsy fclty nd dl wth qck trns twc wk, swng t dy, dy t md. t s n ss kckr, 'm rlly trd. ws syng t s wy wrs thn th 14 hr dys hd n th mltry
yh rd t... nd th fct tht y wr n th wng... cngrts. Wnt ck? Srsly? Th wng? y'r cmprng nythng t tht plsh jb? gmm brk
 

RyzinEnagy

Newcomer
Jun 12, 2009
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Re: "ANOTHER" Sleeping Controller ?!?!?!?

The difference between then and now is not that controllers are suddenly sleeping on duty in droves, but that the media now has an opening and will sensationalize it. What before you may have only seen on Aviation Daily, if it ever became known, is now national news.

It's going to continue to be played up until Obama/Congress does their usual overreaction to issues and orders mass hiring of controllers, which of course would be good for us and for the droves of CTIers who will join the candidate pool in the next few years.
 

Rosstafari

Daaaang.
Aug 17, 2008
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Re: "ANOTHER" Sleeping Controller ?!?!?!?

Leave it alone Alzy, apparently we're not qualified to have an opionion cause we're not controllers. Lets just hope that this isn't the type of mindset we have to deal with when we to our prospective facilities.
It's exactly what you'll do as a trainee. You have no opinion, because you have nothing to base it on. I have none, the student on my right has none, the one on my left has none. An instructor tells me the sky is green? Then it's green, at least till I'm checked out.

The guys with the attitudes get canned. I say a lot of stupid things, but at least I know that if I haven't worked real traffic, I'm not in the place to start arguing with the people who have.

But if you want to go ahead and keep it up, go nuts. ATC's a small world though. It's not going to be hard to connect the new hire named Aaron from Riddle to the one on SM going around and telling the 10 and 20 year CPCs how to do their jobs.
 

aaronavtr

Trusted Contributor
Sep 26, 2009
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Re: "ANOTHER" Sleeping Controller ?!?!?!?

It's exactly what you'll do as a trainee. You have no opinion, because you have nothing to base it on. I have none, the student on my right has none, the one on my left has none. An instructor tells me the sky is green? Then it's green, at least till I'm checked out. The guys with the attitudes get canned.

But if you want to go ahead and keep it up, go nuts. ATC's a small world though. It's not going to be hard to connect the new hire named Aaron from Riddle to the one on SM going around and telling the 10 and 20 year CPCs how to do their jobs.
Please allow me to clarify. As someone who NEVER controlled traffic. NO I DO NOT HAVE AN OPINION NEITHER AM I ENTITLED TO ONE. I completely understand and believe that.

It seems as though my inquisition to why things are the way they are (sleeping controllers) have come off as me having an attitude and having an opinion of what should be done. That is quite disturbing. People act as thought I am going around telling them how to control traffic!!!

My purpose of this thread WAS NOT to have what these past 5 pages have had in terms of the CONTROLLERS VS APPLICANTS. I admire controllers as a whole and respect em too. I won't be caught dead going and telling a tenured controller what I think they should or shouldn't do (even if it is sleeping on a shift) cause like radium says IT HAPPENS.

Note: I've not said/neither will I what I think controllers should or shouldn't do at all in this thread or on SM as a whole for that matter.
 

The Heatles

Loving Life
Jun 15, 2008
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Re: "ANOTHER" Sleeping Controller ?!?!?!?

The negative responses are coming more from your statement of "fire these guys, I deserve that job not them" quote. If it's not the way you meant it to look it sure as hell looks that way.

The military and other regular jobs are physically tiring... busy ATC is mentally tiring. Its very different. Your brain is constantly working and solving problems. Calculating speeds, separation, overtake rate, traffic, etc... add to that just 1 idiot pilot who cant seem to understand proper readbacks or compliance and your brain is fried in a matter of an hour and a half. That's about 1 rotation on shift... take 30 and be back for round 2, 3 and 4. Dont forget to train your trainee... thats even worse if they dont know what they are doing because you're thinking of your own scenarios and theirs is never the same so you have to figure out what they are thinking and fix what they screw up. Oh yeah... you need to go watch that boring CBI video before you leave too. Long day? be back in 8 hours to do it again, then spend the last half of that midshift trying to stay awake with nothing to keep your attention except a few planes which you can count on 1 hand for the next 4 hours.

How much sleep did you get in that 8 hours? dont forget to subtract the 1-2 hours you spend driving to work and back and good luck getting decent sleep in the middle of the day. Does your better half work too? Got Kids? HA! You're done!! You'll know soon enough and you'll say to yourself... "That Douche on SM had it right all along, I was so naive back then".
 

aaronavtr

Trusted Contributor
Sep 26, 2009
551
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Northeast U.S.
Re: "ANOTHER" Sleeping Controller ?!?!?!?

Now on a different subject...for all the NBA FANs the playoffs are underway soon and the Lakers...yes the Los Angeles Lakers WILL win their 4th in a roll title. Phil Jackson will retire as one of the greatest coaches in basketball history.:hurray:
 

auxxiliary

Senior Member
Sep 2, 2009
171
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Anchorage, Alaska
Re: "ANOTHER" Sleeping Controller ?!?!?!?

Seriously? The irony being that there is an obvious need for controllers (not withstanding those approaching ret. age) at many facilities other than the 5 you've mentioned (I'm sure there are PLENTY of other 1 man mid shift facilities)...yet hiring these last two years have been atrocious, as if there hasn't been much of a need at all.
1. Because they run out of money to hire anymore.
2. They are the government they are slow for everything.
3. Uhh did I mention they are the government?
 

PorkBarrel

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Nov 21, 2008
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Just had a thought, that in the midst of all the proposed budget cuts and the FAA supposedly proposed to being cut $300 million, isn't all this bad news of controllers sleeping good promotion for why they shouldn't receiving budget cuts? I mean they're already staffing towers with normally 1 persons on the mid now with 2, and they still mention in the news that veteran controllers are anticipating retirement soon. If you ask me, with all the self reporting going on, looks like the FAA is hanging a few out to hang dry and sacrifice while Congress may reconsider those budget cuts.
 

alzy

Senior Analyst
Jan 21, 2010
800
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16
Earth
Re: "ANOTHER" Sleeping Controller ?!?!?!?

Yp, ws Mrn Crps TC Wngr, Yp. ls cn bnch 315, ddlft 400, nd cn whp yr ss. h ls, ntrnt sht tlkr, m ls CPC n th F, nd yr nt!!! hp y nvr gt hrd. Y prbbly wnt. ll
cn bnch yr mm... tht's lk wht? 5 r6 hndrd lbs?

lk t y gng n bt th slly wght y cn psh rnd nd y cll m th ntrnt sht tlkr?

ll y prbbly dd drng yr tm n th wng ws g t th gym stpd lsr, bt ddn't yr mmmy tll y tht pshng wght wn't hlp n fght? HHHH!
Y cn whp my ss. Y dn't vn knw wh th F*K y'r tlkng t nd y g sy smthng rtrdd lk tht!! BWHHHHHH!!
 

Ramstar13

Trusted Member
Dec 2, 2008
373
5
18
Mexico City
I wasn't trying to start anything, I was just stating facts about the job bro, quick turns suck, and know one can say they are not until they are actually doing them
 

Rosstafari

Daaaang.
Aug 17, 2008
1,149
22
38
40
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If you two can't have an argument with flaming, I'ma take away your vowels and give them to the starving children in India.
 

alzy

Senior Analyst
Jan 21, 2010
800
0
16
Earth
Would you like to buy a vowel?

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J5UXwHD2YY[/YOUTUBE]