Training Failures

mbalunda

Epic Member
Jan 31, 2009
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Training failures have always been a concern of our membership, but under todays changing environment, it is even more critical that we provide the best opportunity for new hires to succeed. Article 61 provides procedures for non-probationary developmental controllers who do not successfully complete training. Employees may be given the opportunity for reassignment to a lower level facility if a vacancy exists. Employees will be given a choice of up to five facilities, and en route employees will be sent back to the Academy for terminal training.
This is from the new contract that is being negoiated currently. It seems as though they FAA intends to hold onto trainees longer even if they are less than succesful. Good news for those of us who are being thrown into the fire at Level 12 facilities with no ATC background.

My thought is this though...if they do this, and start sending people back to the Academy I've gotta assume attrition numbers will end up being a lot lower. I know in the past they've tried to move folks to other facilities, but I don't recall seeing that they actually sent you back to the Academy for terminal training.

I wonder if something like this will effect the number of hires in the future. Sounds like they want to avoid getting rid of people who don't succeed right away, which will probably lead to more people actually staying with the Agency.
 

Cirrus12

Epic Member
Nov 11, 2008
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Purgatory
This is from the new contract that is being negoiated currently. It seems as though they FAA intends to hold onto trainees longer even if they are less than succesful. Good news for those of us who are being thrown into the fire at Level 12 facilities with no ATC background.

My thought is this though...if they do this, and start sending people back to the Academy I've gotta assume attrition numbers will end up being a lot lower. I know in the past they've tried to move folks to other facilities, but I don't recall seeing that they actually sent you back to the Academy for terminal training.

I wonder if something like this will effect the number of hires in the future. Sounds like they want to avoid getting rid of people who don't succeed right away, which will probably lead to more people actually staying with the Agency.
If you get sent back to the academy, how much do you get paid while there?
 

Whirlybird19

Chief Editor
Nov 22, 2008
231
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Phoenix
I wonder if this is something they are going to offer to EVERYONE who fails or on an individual basis. I mean you have to assume there are people who make it to their facility who will never have what it takes no matter what level facility they are at. But there are probably some who need to start off slow. Either way this will be something interesting to follow.

Where did you get that info from?
 

The Heatles

Loving Life
Jun 15, 2008
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Miami, FL
Im sure it will be a case by case thing... maybe off the recommendation of the Air Traffic Manager. I seriously doubt all trainees will be given another chance, some are just clearly not cut out for this job and it will show early.
 

Roddy_Piper

Resident Knucklehead
Jun 15, 2008
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Vegas baby
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There is more than pay left bro.
i agree. there is like 86 articles in the current IWR and about 106 in the green book yet only about 30 of them were outlined on that link.

you still need to make it to your 1 year before your training failure. it's a definite upgrade to the current situation of training failures.

woot woot...bring on the shorts and polos.
 
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Barney13

Senior Member
Jun 12, 2009
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where u all wanna be...
Enroute Failures will, If they get selected at a terminal, will have to come back to OKC for tower training. If u have been thru the 50046 course, u
will more than likely be sent to a lower level Facility if selected..
The key thing is, Be a good employee , always try to do your best, and they will more than likely help u.
Don't use this as an "out" to get a different option, because they can see thru this..

Be positive and keep a good attitude and things may work out 4 u.
 

mbalunda

Epic Member
Jan 31, 2009
2,867
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There is more than pay left bro.
i agree. there is like 86 articles in the current IWR and about 106 in the green book yet only about 30 of them were outlined on that link.

you still need to make it to your 1 year before your training failure. it's a definite upgrade to the current situation of training failures.

woot woot...bring on the shorts and polos.
What was in that link are just 'cherry picked' items.

Word on the street is that 118 of 123 items have been settled thus far, and what is left is directly linked with pay in some fashion.
 

Roddy_Piper

Resident Knucklehead
Jun 15, 2008
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What was in that link are just 'cherry picked' items.

Word on the street is that 118 of 123 items have been settled thus far, and what is left is directly linked with pay in some fashion.
thanks for the update. my facility is not included in the "word on the street" circles. we must be a bastard facility. i didn't hear ANYTHING today at work about any of this. plus i don't check my faa email.
 

tport507

Newcomer
May 22, 2009
12
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denver
I got ahold of a Air Traffic Manager at a center and he said he had five new recruits recently and after nine months four couldn't handle it and wanted to transfer and he said he had to let all four go. I am not sure if that was his decision or if it came from higher up.
 

mbalunda

Epic Member
Jan 31, 2009
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I got ahold of a Air Traffic Manager at a center and he said he had five new recruits recently and after nine months four couldn't handle it and wanted to transfer and he said he had to let all four go. I am not sure if that was his decision or if it came from higher up.
I know in the past you had to be so far into training. Not necessarily time in, but things you've checked out on. Sounds like the new rules may be a bit more lenient and let you stay on somewhere as long as you've made it at least a year. I assume it will be case by case though, hard to tell from the small exerpt.
 

FlyBaby

Senior Member
Dec 17, 2008
253
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Dallas, TX
I just met a guy who was "advised" to transfer from level 12 to a level 5 facility in LA. Ouch. He said officially he put in the request but he was strongly recommended. By the way, he's VRA
 

mbalunda

Epic Member
Jan 31, 2009
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I just met a guy who was "advised" to transfer from level 12 to a level 5 facility in LA. Ouch. He said officially he put in the request but he was strongly recommended. By the way, he's VRA
Was he already CPC? You can't transfer anytime before that, can you?
 

ColtsATC

Trusted Contributor
Aug 27, 2008
590
14
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Damn, D2 at a level 12 to Level 5. That's probably a pay cut (I don't feel like looking it up).