Understanding the New Seniority Rule..

fedup

Newcomer
Jan 11, 2009
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Bravo! Never show the other side that there is contention in the ranks. Never show that you are punishing your own. Bad move.
 

fedup

Newcomer
Jan 11, 2009
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I was wondering the same? Nobody is forcing anyone to stay. Yet, I don't know anyone that has actually quit this job. Maybe its the 6 figure salary.
 

papag

Junior Member
Jun 18, 2008
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The quicker you learn you can't make everyone happy, the better off you'll be. Most/plenty of the current guys worked their asses of to get there, and went through way more hazing than that I'm sure. Something like 50% of the academy failed, and then another 60%+ of those that made it to the facility didn't make it either.

Noobs are looked at with caution, because the vet's know the academy isn't what it used to be, and neither is D or R school.

No one is going to spoon feed you in this new world, so you better buckleup, buttercup :)
Thankgod for some sanity here. You union bashing whiners make me ill. Walk in the door and think you have the flick???? I read a few above as to how little the union has done for YOU. In what? The year you have been in training? 25 yrs of service and I dont regret one penny Ive spent supporting NATCA. So you tell me, does your vast knowledge of history (1-2 years) equal a veteran of 15-25? Go stick your head in the sand or better yet suck some a.. and promote your way off of the boards. Youll be doing those who actually do the job a favor.
 

papag

Junior Member
Jun 18, 2008
140
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This new senority rule is just another pointless move by the Union to do exactly what? I have been a union member for many years now and my faith in NATCA is diminishing by the second. Punishing your own is bad business. Then to make it retroactive? Why? How is this allowable? I see many ULPs being filed. Why would anyone returning from a detail join the union again? They are most definatley going to strive to move over to managment permenantly. The FAA is loving this I am sure. Now their ranks will be stronger than ever as NATCA's gets weaker. This is the beginning of the end for NATCA. Once a great union falling to pieces.
So bid that a.. sucking sups job and quit whining about it. You mentioned "once great union" and yet you fail to offer any solution as to how it can be better. It would seem you only thought it was great when you recieved a raise of 30K+. One setback and you bail.......Good riddins.
 

fedup

Newcomer
Jan 11, 2009
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So bid that a.. sucking sups job and quit whining about it. You mentioned "once great union" and yet you fail to offer any solution as to how it can be better. It would seem you only thought it was great when you recieved a raise of 30K+. One setback and you bail.......Good riddins.

Oh, it's not whinning, it's disgust. I was a big defender of NATCA until they lost sight of what they were fighting for. ALL NATCA members! Not just a select few. My solution...Put adults in charge. Get rid of the whinny babies that are screwing things up! It's not just management that is full of it. I never bailed. They still get my money every other week. As far as one setback, try many! 30K raise? Yeah, right. Not me PAPAQ. Maybe you.
 

xjchief

Newcomer
Oct 31, 2009
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Would have been pretty nice to know this when I bid on that sup job... It is what it is, but as far as we all knew at our facility anyone who returned to the bargaining unit just lost their time in management. Hopefully one day it changes back to the way it was, up until now I've been a union member my entire professional career- ALPA, Teamsters, and NATCA. This is my first time working in a bargaining unit as a nonunion member. Oh, I should mention for those who think we got paid so much, I got a 4% raise for my "promotion" which was really only 2.4% because I missed out on the contract's 1.6% June step increase. I actually got a raise when I returned to the bargaining unit this year. I can also recommend it as a great way to save up sick leave. :p
 

GulfCharlie

Epic Member
Sep 1, 2011
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Would have been pretty nice to know this when I bid on that sup job... It is what it is, but as far as we all knew at our facility anyone who returned to the bargaining unit just lost their time in management. Hopefully one day it changes back to the way it was, up until now I've been a union member my entire professional career- ALPA, Teamsters, and NATCA. This is my first time working in a bargaining unit as a nonunion member. Oh, I should mention for those who think we got paid so much, I got a 4% raise for my "promotion" which was really only 2.4% because I missed out on the contract's 1.6% June step increase. I actually got a raise when I returned to the bargaining unit this year. I can also recommend it as a great way to save up sick leave. :p
Doesn't matter. You became management. You left your brothers and sisters for that raise. You made a choice. You lose all your time as consequence.
 

Stinger

Epic Member
May 24, 2009
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Doesn't matter. You became management. You left your brothers and sisters for that raise. You made a choice. You lose all your time as consequence.
Unless you're moving up a level or two when you become a supervisor, you're not making any more money since you'll lose a lot of the differentials. Prior to the MSS payscale decrease in 2011 or 2012, sure a new FLM would get a hefty raise. That's not the case anymore.
Why should I lose all my prior seniority time if I was to decide that being a supervisor wasn't for me and I return to being a controller?
 

lowapproach

Epic Member
Oct 29, 2010
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Unless you're moving up a level or two when you become a supervisor, you're not making any more money since you'll lose a lot of the differentials. Prior to the MSS payscale decrease in 2011 or 2012, sure a new FLM would get a hefty raise. That's not the case anymore.
They can avoid working traffic if they're scared, and more than a few are. They can assign their own leave and their own overtime to cover. They can set themselves up for thinking great thoughts at Region or FAA HQ, and then an MSS-4 somewhere down the road. If they don't think they're getting paid enough up front to take the job, that's between them and the FAA.

Why should I lose all my prior seniority time if I was to decide that being a supervisor wasn't for me and I return to being a controller?
You don't lose all your prior seniority unless you accept a permanent position as a supervisor. If you're worried about losing your seniority, you should either not leave the bargaining unit in the first place, or take a temporary position so your NATCA seniority would still count.
 

xjchief

Newcomer
Oct 31, 2009
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Doesn't matter. You became management. You left your brothers and sisters for that raise. You made a choice. You lose all your time as consequence.
You couldn't be more wrong. I was bored with the job and angry with the way things worked at the facility. 4 years later I'm happy to just be bored again. :p
 

RobertB

Senior Analyst
Aug 18, 2008
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So you leave the bargaining unit, come back, and want your seniority to count?!? If you pay dues now and are in good standing, submit a constitutional change and it may or may not be heard at the next convention. It will be hard to get a second when you abandoned the BUEs and took a permanent sup job only to realize your mistake and return to being a BUE.
 

Stinger

Epic Member
May 24, 2009
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So you leave the bargaining unit, come back, and want your seniority to count?!? If you pay dues now and are in good standing, submit a constitutional change and it may or may not be heard at the next convention. It will be hard to get a second when you abandoned the BUEs and took a permanent sup job only to realize your mistake and return to being a BUE.
If a controller was to leave the FAA and do something else, whether that be a non-natca contract facility or even no job at all, and then reapplies back to the FAA and gets hired....would that person be reset back to zero seniority or would their previous seniority still count (minus the time away)?
 

lowapproach

Epic Member
Oct 29, 2010
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If a controller was to leave the FAA and do something else, whether that be a non-natca contract facility or even no job at all, and then reapplies back to the FAA and gets hired....would that person be reset back to zero seniority or would their previous seniority still count (minus the time away)?
In that case, your previous seniority still counts. They just take the total days of accrued seniority you have, and determine a new seniority date by subtracting that number of days from the date you rehired into the FAA.
 

Stinger

Epic Member
May 24, 2009
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In that case, your previous seniority still counts. They just take the total days of accrued seniority you have, and determine a new seniority date by subtracting that number of days from the date you rehired into the FAA.
Then how is that not also considered "abandoning the BUEs" as RobertB mentions?
Quitting seems to me like the ultimate "ambandonment."
 

lowapproach

Epic Member
Oct 29, 2010
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Then how is that not also considered "abandoning the BUEs" as RobertB mentions?
Quitting seems to me like the ultimate "abandonment."
Because people like me didn't get a pay raise or cash bonuses out of money stolen from NATCA members during the White Book, with the direction to spite NATCA any way they could.

This policy only really affects people too stupid to understand what it means to accept a permanent management position. I see no reason to change the policy just because a handful of BUEs -- most of whom are likely not the best co-workers or even NATCA members in good standing -- experienced buyer's remorse after taking a permanent management position.
 

NovemberEcho

Epic Member
Dec 8, 2010
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I don't hold anything against anyone who takes a management position if it's the only way out of their facility. I've considered trying it, but decided that the life of an FLM is just too terrible and boring to make it worth it. Cpc who bids a management job at their own facility though...