What Will Be the Makeup of the New Hires?

buckeye10

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Nov 27, 2008
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You better get used to people thinking they are gods gift to atc because you will get that your entire career from all sources.
 

Dcalcoda

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Aug 21, 2013
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I work at the New York TRACON (N90) as an RPO. Since I've been working there, I've seen plenty of people succeed and plenty of people shit the bed and wash out. Obviously N90 has a reputation for being a tough place to check out and it certainly is. The wash out rate is about 50%. I've seen CPCs, VRAs and CTI grads. Of the new hires, whether they be VRA or CTI, I've seen very little difference. In fact, CTI grads probably have a better success rate than VRAs. I understand why the FAA thinks that a VRA would make a better controller than a CTI grad, but from first hand experience it's just not true. It depends on the person and that's it. Obviously, the highest success rate at N90 is those that are already CPC and especially those with a radar ticket. But for those without prior FAA experience, it all comes down to the person.
 

LyraM45

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Mar 6, 2012
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^^This^^ I agree. I've seen all walks come through ZOA and guess what? They all can wash out. I've seen people who got a 72 on their ATSAT make fabulous CPC's, and people who got 100's wash out and even have trouble at a tower afterwards. I've seen people from different bids do well and do absolutely crappy. Nobody is immune to the wash out monster. I agree, it comes down to the person.
 

Dcalcoda

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Aug 21, 2013
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I've been working there for just over 2 years. They do send CTI there, they just won't be sent to Newark or Kennedy sector. They weren't sending any at all for a while but over the last year or so they have been because they're short staffed and desperate. Our most recent Laguardia class had 1 CTI, 1 VRA and 1 CPC. The CTI and CPC made it. The VRA washed out. He didn't even make it out of the lab.
 

LyraM45

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Mar 6, 2012
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How long have you been RPO'ing at N90? I didn't think they sent CTI people there as new hires?
This is what I thought too. I know they won't take new hires out of the academy at NCT or high level towers around here like SFO. I think I heard something about if it's a level 12 facility, new hires can't go there to start off.
 

NovemberEcho

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Dec 8, 2010
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I've been working there for just over 2 years. They do send CTI there, they just won't be sent to Newark or Kennedy sector. They weren't sending any at all for a while but over the last year or so they have been because they're short staffed and desperate. Our most recent Laguardia class had 1 CTI, 1 VRA and 1 CPC. The CTI and CPC made it. The VRA washed out. He didn't even make it out of the lab.
I just found it odd you said you think CTI do better cause a number of N90 controllers on here all say VRA does much better than CTI there. I know the most recent EWR class was 0-4. Don't know what their makeup was though. I've already been told it's about 98% chance I'll be heading to EWR as well. I'll be there in May.
 

Dcalcoda

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Aug 21, 2013
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That was the case for a long time. N90 is extremely short staffed. Almost every controller works 6 days a week. Whenever they put a bid out, minimal people apply because of the stigma attached to the place. Desperate times call for desperate measures. They began taking CTIs again about a year or so ago. I think it depends on how well the student did in school and which school they went to.

Since that last Laguardia class, which was about 4 or 5 months ago, we've had one Newark class. They were all CPC. 3 washed out and 1 quit. N90 just isn't getting the numbers they need. And with the numbers of potential retirees over the next couple of years, it doesn't look good. I don't think they really care where you come from anymore, but we'll see what happens with this new wave of hires.
 

Dcalcoda

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Aug 21, 2013
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I just found it odd you said you think CTI do better cause a number of N90 controllers on here all say VRA does much better than CTI there. I know the most recent EWR class was 0-4. Don't know what their makeup was though. I've already been told it's about 98% chance I'll be heading to EWR as well. I'll be there in May.
I've only been there about 2 years. From what I've seen in that time, there is not much of a difference and I've seen some VRAs that have absolutely no idea what they're doing. It makes sense that VRAs would have better overall numbers and people who have been there a long time would have a better idea than I would. My time there is short. Mostly what I'm saying is it comes down to the person. My father was an off the street hire in 1984 and worked Newark for 28 years.
 

NovemberEcho

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Dec 8, 2010
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I know of 4-5 at the Academy now and 3 including me in the march class plus another 5 or so with TOL's and we're all VRA. Stsngely they redirected 2 guys with N90 tol's to elsewhere.

and i def agree there are plenty of vra's who are clueless.
 

eric86

Junior Member
Sep 4, 2008
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just curious... how many of those VRAs that washed held a tracon ticket? because there are a lot of VRAs that do not have much controlling experience or better yet get qual'd at a reputable facility.
 

VikAnis

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Apr 23, 2013
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This is what I thought too. I know they won't take new hires out of the academy at NCT or high level towers around here like SFO. I think I heard something about if it's a level 12 facility, new hires can't go there to start off.
Hmm, if I remember correctly NCT is level 11 and when I was job shadowing there they had CTIs and VRA hires. You're right about SFO though, they didn't have any CTIs when I was there. BTW: SFO got a nice new tower.
 

deano

Junior Member
Mar 21, 2012
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I saw they got a new tower when I went on a shadowing thing there a month or so ago, but the tower was still under construction.
 

LyraM45

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Mar 6, 2012
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Hmm, if I remember correctly NCT is level 11 and when I was job shadowing there they had CTIs and VRA hires. You're right about SFO though, they didn't have any CTIs when I was there. BTW: SFO got a nice new tower.
I think NCT is a 12 now. ZOA is 11 still.

And SFO won't be in their tower for some time-- still in the building phase for sure. OAK is in a shiny new tower now though!
 

ajmezz

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Apr 8, 2010
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I haven't look in a few months, but you can watch the construction live on SFO's airport website and even scroll back to day 1. Pretty cool stuff to watch how it has progressed.
 

deano

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Mar 21, 2012
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I think NCT is a 12 now. ZOA is 11 still.

And SFO won't be in their tower for some time-- still in the building phase for sure. OAK is in a shiny new tower now though!
I shadowed oak tower too, WAY better than the old one when I went the first time . I was impressed !
 

ECHODELTA85

Senior Member
May 5, 2011
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Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
I'm guessing there will be a lot more 10/5 point vets than anticipated. I got emails from 4 different vet organizations since last monday with the ZOMG the FAA is hiring over 600 applicants, and they "want as many of them as possible to be Veterans."
From the application, it seems that way. It seems like most of the questions were tailored to the vets. I mean, there were questions for everyone else, but it was geared towards hiring a massive amount of vets. No doubt.