Withdrawing from Training to Avoid the NEST? Need Advice.

ZB1983

Newcomer
Apr 9, 2014
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I'm in training at my third facility (first level 12). I've never washed out and am not officially in any training trouble but I'm starting to have those days where I worry I may not make it and wonder if this place is for me even if I do. My understanding is that if you wash out you go to the NEST who offers you three poorly staffed facilities to choose from with no regard to preference or geographic location. Also with the ERR MOU it could be very difficult to ever leave the poorly staffed facility to which you do get sent. Someone ahead of me in training recently withdrew in hopes that he could ERR back to his last facility before being thrown into the NEST. Is this legit?

My first choice would obviously be to certify where I am but if things start to look bleak then getting tossed in the NEST is a big risk to take. Second would be to go back to my last facility if they can/will take me. I liked it fine there. Last choice would be to fail and go to the NEST. Even worse would be to withdraw and still end up in the NEST somehow, going to a place I don't want to be and wondering if I ever could have made it here.

Sorry if this has been asked, I searched the site for a while and couldn't find exactly what I was trying to ask. Thanks!

-ZB
 

jdatc624

Senior Member
Dec 30, 2010
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Center/center/tracon
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I'm in training at my third facility (first level 12). I've never washed out and am not officially in any training trouble but I'm starting to have those days where I worry I may not make it and wonder if this place is for me even if I do. My understanding is that if you wash out you go to the NEST who offers you three poorly staffed facilities to choose from with no regard to preference or geographic location. Also with the ERR MOU it could be very difficult to ever leave the poorly staffed facility to which you do get sent. Someone ahead of me in training recently withdrew in hopes that he could ERR back to his last facility before being thrown into the NEST. Is this legit?

My first choice would obviously be to certify where I am but if things start to look bleak then getting tossed in the NEST is a big risk to take. Second would be to go back to my last facility if they can/will take me. I liked it fine there. Last choice would be to fail and go to the NEST. Even worse would be to withdraw and still end up in the NEST somehow, going to a place I don't want to be and wondering if I ever could have made it here.

Sorry if this has been asked, I searched the site for a while and couldn't find exactly what I was trying to ask. Thanks!

-ZB
Is your current facility cat 1/2? If not you can't ERR anyway, so it's a moot point.

The last NCEPT facility status and number over national average for August doesn't show too many level 12 facilities above the national average. Unless you are at CLT, DEN, IAH or SCT it appears you won't be ERRing.
 

ZB1983

Newcomer
Apr 9, 2014
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I am not at any of those facilities. It sounds like it's certify or bust then. At least that simplifies things. Thank you very much!
 

nhstadt

Epic Member
Mar 24, 2011
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south "Murica
I think (not a concern of mine at the moment, but kind of remember seeing it) in the new ERR MOU it outlines nest procedures... If your last facility isn't at 100 percent it will be on your nest list. Again, I could be wrong on that, but you may look at it.
 

ZB1983

Newcomer
Apr 9, 2014
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So is there any advantage to withdrawing over washing out other than being able to say you didn't wash out?
 

mbalunda

Epic Member
Jan 31, 2009
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If you withdraw and you'll be sent to NEST. Just helped a trainee at my facility with this same thing.
 

ZB1983

Newcomer
Apr 9, 2014
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If you withdraw and you'll be sent to NEST. Just helped a trainee at my facility with this same thing.
Just to be clear you mean that if a CPC-IT withdraws from training then they will definitely be put into the NEST? Not trying to be a jerk about the wording, just want to make sure I'm clear on your meaning.
 

echster

Senior Member
Sep 14, 2015
153
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DoD ATC
Just to be clear you mean that if a CPC-IT withdraws from training then they will definitely be put into the NEST? Not trying to be a jerk about the wording, just want to make sure I'm clear on your meaning.
If you were a previous CPC and fail to achieve certification at a new facility, you should go into the NEST. This is covered in the CBA at Article 61.
 

gourgi18

Rookie
Jun 24, 2008
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You do go into the nest as soon as you withdraw from training. Prior to the new err mou the strategy would be to try to err out before your training was stopped. Now, that is (supposedly) not possible, although the mou actually says that trainee errs will be handled on a case by case basis. I haven't heard of a trainee being allowed to err yet. However you need to find the nest sop. It's on the other website. The nest process was revised to guarantee that as long as your old facility was not staffed to 100%, it would appear on your nest list. I found myself in what sounds like your exact situation, not sure that even though I knew I would check out, if I wanted to be there, and almost withdrew myself. I didn't, decided to serve my time, and am now stuck in a place I hate. Good luck in your decision, I know how difficult it is.
 

Bogier6

Senior Member
Jul 9, 2010
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I might be wrong here, but I recall that the people placed in the NEST are considered in the order they were placed there. So the first person to be sent to the NEST AFTER they meet might have first shot at the available facilities on the next meeting. Some research here might help you if you withdraw at the right time. But again, I could be wrong!
 

ATC1983

Newcomer
Jul 30, 2011
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It is true that placement priority is based on whose training is terminated first at least per the last copy of the NEST SOP I read. However, that didn't have anything about return rights yet. Also, someone at my facility just came back from the convention saying that withdrawals automatically go to the bottom of the stack and you'd be better off washing out. Any truth to this? Also, where can I find the most updated version of the NEST SOP?
 

cali

Senior Member
Mar 29, 2015
279
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Don't assume the NEST will retain you, I'd give it all you got to just get CPC and than transfer if you want. You don't wanna just withdraw and than have the NEST deny you and sit there on the outside wondering what if...
 

ATC1983

Newcomer
Jul 30, 2011
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Absolutely you're right for non-CPC's. The question is about previously certified CPC's who have transferred and then either don't make it through training or foreaee themselves washing out or just no longer want to be at the new facility. They will be retained per the contract. A double washout CPC runs the risk of not being retained just like a single washout new hire as I understand it.
 

fkelly

Newcomer
Jun 15, 2013
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VA
A double washout CPC runs the risk of not being retained just like a single washout new hire as I understand it.
I don't know if the double washout as a CPC rule is true or not, but you definitely are "rewarded" for sticking it out as long as possible and washing out instead of withdrawing from training. I am am not sure how many choices you get if you go to the NEST as a washout, but you get significantly less if you withdraw from training - like 3-5 facilities or something like that - than you do if you ride it out to the bitter end - possibly the whole list of vacancies that you're eligible for.
 

cali

Senior Member
Mar 29, 2015
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Well if someone is a CPC and are thinking of withdrawing due to their lack of confidence they can get certified, that's not exactly a controller I wanna work with...whether you think there's hope or not, you should never wave the white flag, especially if you're a prior CPC. Personal reasons are a whole other ball game though.
 

FM_Weasel

Senior Analyst
Dec 9, 2008
991
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I've known plenty of people that should have just waived the white flag. There are some sleepy facilities out there where folks like that can flourish. Not everyone needs to lie to themselves and others once it becomes clear that a certain level facility isn't for them.
 

cali

Senior Member
Mar 29, 2015
279
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Agreed...There's just something to be said about a CPC waving the white flag vs a developmental in my opinion.