Wrong Altitude for Direction of Flight

astats87

Junior Member
Oct 11, 2010
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I'm right here
So I've been looking and can't find the phraseology to appreq wrong altitude for direction of flight.
I've heard it done so many ways and have just copied off of others without know what the actual phraseology was. (btw picking up bad habits while in training is a bad idea.)

Can you provide the source please because I need proof.

Thanks
 

Genot

Trusted Contributor
Feb 7, 2010
534
10
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A Dark Dark Room
I'm on my phone so I can't help much more than to say its inappropriate altitude for direction of flight if you want to use the book term.
 

OrTgAsM

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2009
183
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Omaha
I'm pretty sure there won't be any phraseology for it. It's one of those "plain english" requests. I know on cert day its: APREQ "callsign" IAFDOF at "altitude".
 
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NovemberEcho

Epic Member
Dec 8, 2010
4,388
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Long Island
I believe it's like a point out in that the .65 lists what must be said, but not in any particular order. I always say it "APREQ N12345 dir/hdg 5,000 wrong direction for flight"
 

FM_Weasel

Senior Analyst
Dec 9, 2008
991
7
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I believe it's like a point out in that the .65 lists what must be said, but not in any particular order. I always say it "APREQ N12345 dir/hdg 5,000 wrong direction for flight"
Well hopefully it's the right direction for their flight. It's the wrong altitude for the direction though :)

Exact verbiage isn't in the .65, just the requirement to coordinate.

4−5−2. FLIGHT DIRECTION
Clear aircraft at altitudes according to the
TBL 4−5−1.

4−5−3. EXCEPTIONS
When traffic, meteorological conditions, or aircraft
operational limitations prevent assignment of
altitudes prescribed in para 4−5−2, Flight Direction,
assign any cardinal altitude or flight level below
FL 410 or any odd cardinal flight level at or above
FL 410 without regard to direction of flight as
follows:

a. For traffic conditions, take this action only if
one of the following conditions exists:

1. Aircraft remain within a facility’s area and
prior approval is obtained from other affected
positions or sectors or the operations are covered in
a Facility Directive.

2. Aircraft will proceed beyond the facility’s
area and specific operations and procedures
permitting random altitude assignment are covered in
a letter of agreement between the appropriate
facilities.


b. Military aircraft are operating on random routes
and prior approval is obtained from the facility
concerned.

c. For meteorological conditions, take this action
only if you obtain prior approval from other affected
positions or sectors within your facility and, if
necessary, from the adjacent facility concerned.

d. For aircraft operational limitations, take this
action only if the pilot informs you the available
appropriate altitude exceeds the operational limitations
of his/her aircraft and only after you obtain prior
approval from other affected positions or sectors
within your facility and, if necessary, from the
adjacent facility concerned.

e. For mission requirements, take this action only
when the aircraft is operating on an MTR.
 

Stinger

Epic Member
May 24, 2009
1,563
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If an aircraft is level going west at 15,000' does Center taking the handoff count as approval?
 

NovemberEcho

Epic Member
Dec 8, 2010
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"We'll hopefully it's the right direction for flight"

Lmao honestly I think half the time I apreq it I say it like that. It can be a tongue twister.
 

NovemberEcho

Epic Member
Dec 8, 2010
4,388
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Long Island
If an aircraft is level going west at 15,000' does Center taking the handoff count as approval?
It should be coordinated before the next sector has a chance to take the flash, and at least as a safety measure in case he didn't notice it was wrong altitude for direction.
 

jamisjockey

Banned
Jan 10, 2010
2,833
30
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If an aircraft is level going west at 15,000' does Center taking the handoff count as approval?

What are your procedures locally? I'd bet dollars to donuts you're already wrong sending them someone at the wrong alt for direction of flight. WAFDOF now.
But why would you bone the other controller unnecessarily? Setting someone else up for a deal is bad juju, unsafe, and just a dick move.
Coordinate that shit.
 

FM_Weasel

Senior Analyst
Dec 9, 2008
991
7
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I'm all for automating coordination, but making the handoff constitute acceptance seems like burdening the wrong controller if the operation is denied.
 

WatchThis

Trusted Contributor
Apr 29, 2010
561
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Arizona
In the absence of some standardized procedure in an LOA/Directive, I think most controllers would consider "prior approval" to mean an apreq before the automated handoff attempt. Some, maybe a lot, of these cases would require manual coordination anyway since the aircraft would be leveled off at something other than their planned or expected altitude.
 
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Stinger

Epic Member
May 24, 2009
1,563
22
38
What are your procedures locally? I'd bet dollars to donuts you're already wrong sending them someone at the wrong alt for direction of flight. WAFDOF now.
But why would you bone the other controller unnecessarily? Setting someone else up for a deal is bad juju, unsafe, and just a dick move.
Coordinate that shit.
All of our departures get sent to Center on their filed course and climbing to final altitude. If there's overflights coming through our airspace, I don't care at all what altitude they're at, since I'll be having people climbing and descending through their altitudes no matter what.
 
C

charliezuluatc

Guest
I think it was meant to be expect final altitude 10 minutes after departure. Isn't it IAFDOF? Inappropriate altitude. The government being politically correct.